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	<title>Comments on: Commentaries on malpractice</title>
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	<description>Contemplating medicine and the health care system</description>
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		<title>By: wtb spine doc</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/4594/comment-page-1#comment-528765</link>
		<dc:creator>wtb spine doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 05:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medrants.com/?p=4594#comment-528765</guid>
		<description>matt is obviously a trial attorney
how about this... if lawyers really care about &quot; justice&quot;  and want their poor plaintiffs  compensated then maybe they should dump contingency fees and go on govt set fee schedule just like docs- that way more than the only current 40% of each awardrecieved by plaintiffs  will actually go to the victim and not the attorney fee plus litigation costs 
or conversely docs should be paid a percentage of the worth of the body part or system treated ... if a wrongful death case costs a physician a 25 million dollar judgement .... then saving a life should cost the patient or their insurer the same
25 million....right??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>matt is obviously a trial attorney<br />
how about this&#8230; if lawyers really care about &#8221; justice&#8221;  and want their poor plaintiffs  compensated then maybe they should dump contingency fees and go on govt set fee schedule just like docs- that way more than the only current 40% of each awardrecieved by plaintiffs  will actually go to the victim and not the attorney fee plus litigation costs<br />
or conversely docs should be paid a percentage of the worth of the body part or system treated &#8230; if a wrongful death case costs a physician a 25 million dollar judgement &#8230;. then saving a life should cost the patient or their insurer the same<br />
25 million&#8230;.right??</p>
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		<title>By: One more thought on rationing &#124; DB&#8217;s Medical Rants</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/4594/comment-page-1#comment-528603</link>
		<dc:creator>One more thought on rationing &#124; DB&#8217;s Medical Rants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medrants.com/?p=4594#comment-528603</guid>
		<description>[...] for those who have not read this entry I present &#8211; Commentaries on malpractice. Our malpractice environment likely has a major influence on costs. Trial lawyers will deny it, but [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] for those who have not read this entry I present &#8211; Commentaries on malpractice. Our malpractice environment likely has a major influence on costs. Trial lawyers will deny it, but [...]</p>
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		<title>By: solo dr</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/4594/comment-page-1#comment-528524</link>
		<dc:creator>solo dr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medrants.com/?p=4594#comment-528524</guid>
		<description>I practice in what is called a Tier 1, high risk county in Southern Illinois.  My rates are the same as Cook Country physicians, which also are Tier 1.  IL has a few &quot;hellhole&quot; counties.  Moving into a county 20 minutes from my practice would cut my insurance to less than 20,000 a year.  It is the risk of being suit, despite not being sued, that keeps the premiums high in my county.   Dozens of my colleagues have been sued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I practice in what is called a Tier 1, high risk county in Southern Illinois.  My rates are the same as Cook Country physicians, which also are Tier 1.  IL has a few &#8220;hellhole&#8221; counties.  Moving into a county 20 minutes from my practice would cut my insurance to less than 20,000 a year.  It is the risk of being suit, despite not being sued, that keeps the premiums high in my county.   Dozens of my colleagues have been sued.</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/4594/comment-page-1#comment-528523</link>
		<dc:creator>david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medrants.com/?p=4594#comment-528523</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Do they want to improve health care and decrease costs or win political points?&lt;/i&gt;

I think you know the answer to that one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Do they want to improve health care and decrease costs or win political points?</i></p>
<p>I think you know the answer to that one.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/4594/comment-page-1#comment-528515</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medrants.com/?p=4594#comment-528515</guid>
		<description>So basically you&#039;ve just priced poor people out of the courtroom. The lawyer is already fronting tens of thousands in costs and now we are upping the ante?  The only people who could afford to litigate would be insurers. Which I guess is the point. 

70% of premiums go to legal fees?  If you&#039;ve been paying $32000 for several years with no claims that stat wouldn&#039;t make sense.  You may want to look at who is in your risk pool and what your insurers historic profit margin is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So basically you&#8217;ve just priced poor people out of the courtroom. The lawyer is already fronting tens of thousands in costs and now we are upping the ante?  The only people who could afford to litigate would be insurers. Which I guess is the point. </p>
<p>70% of premiums go to legal fees?  If you&#8217;ve been paying $32000 for several years with no claims that stat wouldn&#8217;t make sense.  You may want to look at who is in your risk pool and what your insurers historic profit margin is.</p>
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		<title>By: solo dr</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/4594/comment-page-1#comment-528514</link>
		<dc:creator>solo dr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medrants.com/?p=4594#comment-528514</guid>
		<description>In my area there are at least two doctors who have lost priviliges at both local hospitals for negligence and have been sued at least 6 times each.  Both of them have set up their own surgery centers in the their offices and maintain an outpatient surgery setting.  If something goes wrong, they send the patients to the ER of hospitals where the primary care physician is on staff to take care of the injured patient.
On the flip side, I have never been sued, yet my malpractice insurance for primary care for 09 is $32,000 with no surgery or ob, payable in 4 installments with a low interest loan, read 7%, available through a firm that contracts with my malpractice insurance company.
A way to decrease malpractice premiums and suits would be loser pays the legal fees.  Both sides would have to put at least $100,000 in an escrow account.  Since most injured patients do not have this, the lawyer would have to pony up the money and risk losing money for baseless suits.  Legal costs to defend baseless suits can make up over 70% of the premiums.  
How about getting rid of some these &quot;expert&quot; witnesses that often have not seen a patient in private practice in years, if ever.  These expert witnesses have no clue what the local standard of care is.
What about patient responsibility?  Is it the doctor&#039;s fault that the patient does not take the BP or diabetic meds daily?  I get faxes from the mail order companies about my noncompliant patients, where a 90 day BP med supply lasts 110 or more days.  Who is responsible for the patient who does not exercise, won&#039;t quit smoking, and won&#039;t quit drinking, yet has an MI at 50 and dies?
Finally, in Canada and many countries with socialized medicine, any suits go through the government.  The taxpayers get to pay the malpractice premiums and any payouts to injured patients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my area there are at least two doctors who have lost priviliges at both local hospitals for negligence and have been sued at least 6 times each.  Both of them have set up their own surgery centers in the their offices and maintain an outpatient surgery setting.  If something goes wrong, they send the patients to the ER of hospitals where the primary care physician is on staff to take care of the injured patient.<br />
On the flip side, I have never been sued, yet my malpractice insurance for primary care for 09 is $32,000 with no surgery or ob, payable in 4 installments with a low interest loan, read 7%, available through a firm that contracts with my malpractice insurance company.<br />
A way to decrease malpractice premiums and suits would be loser pays the legal fees.  Both sides would have to put at least $100,000 in an escrow account.  Since most injured patients do not have this, the lawyer would have to pony up the money and risk losing money for baseless suits.  Legal costs to defend baseless suits can make up over 70% of the premiums.<br />
How about getting rid of some these &#8220;expert&#8221; witnesses that often have not seen a patient in private practice in years, if ever.  These expert witnesses have no clue what the local standard of care is.<br />
What about patient responsibility?  Is it the doctor&#8217;s fault that the patient does not take the BP or diabetic meds daily?  I get faxes from the mail order companies about my noncompliant patients, where a 90 day BP med supply lasts 110 or more days.  Who is responsible for the patient who does not exercise, won&#8217;t quit smoking, and won&#8217;t quit drinking, yet has an MI at 50 and dies?<br />
Finally, in Canada and many countries with socialized medicine, any suits go through the government.  The taxpayers get to pay the malpractice premiums and any payouts to injured patients.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/4594/comment-page-1#comment-528512</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medrants.com/?p=4594#comment-528512</guid>
		<description>&quot;American judges frequently let juries decide whether honest mistakes are negligent.&quot;

Simply because someone makes an honest mistake doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s not negligence.  I may make an honest mistake that the light was green when it was in fact red, but my action in proceeding through the intersection and striking someone is still a negligent act.  Wouldn&#039;t you agree, DB?

&quot;The third is the rule that makes each side bear its own costs. This induces riskier lawsuits than are undertaken in most other countries, such as Canada, England and most of Europe, where the loser pays the legal costs of the winner.&quot;

Also, this is a broad generalization that is nowhere near a blanket rule in Europe, nor does it reflect whether those costs are ever collected.  Not to mention, nearly every state in the US ALREADY has a form of loser pays.  And, much of the litigation role in the US is handled in Europe by more detailed regulation and more government intervention.  Pick your poison.

&quot;American courts commonly think it proper for juries to infer medical negligence from the mere occurrence of a serious injury.&quot;

This is simply a completely incorrect statement.  A jury must find negligence, not simply a &quot;serious injury&quot; and infer from there.  

Why the editorial would leave those facts out in making the comparison is unknown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;American judges frequently let juries decide whether honest mistakes are negligent.&#8221;</p>
<p>Simply because someone makes an honest mistake doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s not negligence.  I may make an honest mistake that the light was green when it was in fact red, but my action in proceeding through the intersection and striking someone is still a negligent act.  Wouldn&#8217;t you agree, DB?</p>
<p>&#8220;The third is the rule that makes each side bear its own costs. This induces riskier lawsuits than are undertaken in most other countries, such as Canada, England and most of Europe, where the loser pays the legal costs of the winner.&#8221;</p>
<p>Also, this is a broad generalization that is nowhere near a blanket rule in Europe, nor does it reflect whether those costs are ever collected.  Not to mention, nearly every state in the US ALREADY has a form of loser pays.  And, much of the litigation role in the US is handled in Europe by more detailed regulation and more government intervention.  Pick your poison.</p>
<p>&#8220;American courts commonly think it proper for juries to infer medical negligence from the mere occurrence of a serious injury.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is simply a completely incorrect statement.  A jury must find negligence, not simply a &#8220;serious injury&#8221; and infer from there.  </p>
<p>Why the editorial would leave those facts out in making the comparison is unknown.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/4594/comment-page-1#comment-528510</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medrants.com/?p=4594#comment-528510</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s put aside whether we can define defensive medicine, and what would or would not diminish it, or whether physicians practicing defensive medicine actually reduces their risk.  Let&#039;s even put aside the difficulties in estimating the costs of so called &quot;defensive medicine&quot;, and the fact that one physician&#039;s defensive medicine is another&#039;s necessary care.  Or even the fact that without the profit motive, certain tests may not be as likely to be ordered in a single payer system.  Put aside all that.

I think the problem with comparing other legal malpractice systems is that you also have to compare the healthcare system in conjunction.  The need for pursuing a claim for future medical bills and lost wages and your overall decline in the quality of your life is not as urgent in countries with a deeper social safety net than that provided by the US.  Even things like the relatively inexpensive availability of public transportation in places like that matter.  If a person injured in the US is looking at a lifetime of specialized care, and mountains of past medical bills, that&#039;s an expensive proposition, which becomes less expensive in single payer systems.  

I say less expensive, but let&#039;s be clear, the cost is the same overall, the paying party is just changed.  In Canada, it&#039;s the taxpayer that picks up the tab for malpractice.  In the US, it&#039;s the responsible party if the victim does not have the means to pay them themselves.  So do we want the responsible party paying for the harm they caused, or do we want all us taxpayers sharing that cost?  It&#039;s a philisophical question.  Just because Americans FILE claims more often than Canadians doesn&#039;t mean health care is any cheaper there.  It may mean simply that the injured party isn&#039;t responsible for the direct cost of resulting damage so the incentive for filing isn&#039;t there.  And remember, filed claims don&#039;t equal paid claims.

So simply to say, well, any cost savings is solely attributable to one thing is dangerous.  If physicians go that route, they will eventually find people looking at the salaries of Canadian and US physicians and wondering why the difference and perhaps some money could be saved there as well.
  
You say you think &quot;malpractice reform&quot; would change things, but there are myriad proposed reforms out there now, so without being more specific it&#039;s hard to say.  It&#039;s like saying that healthcare reform would save money.  Without knowing the specific proposed reform, how can you make that determination?  

And while you may be a fan of &quot;health courts&quot;, even if they were not a backdoor version of arbitrary caps, they still have a cost.  You&#039;re creating a whole group of experts, judges, staff, etc. at least one in every state if not more, to be paid by the taxpayer rather than the parties to the litigation.  And the injured victim and the other party are still going to have lawyers, still going to have insurance, etc.   So if you haven&#039;t analyzed those costs, you aren&#039;t being honest about the cost comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s put aside whether we can define defensive medicine, and what would or would not diminish it, or whether physicians practicing defensive medicine actually reduces their risk.  Let&#8217;s even put aside the difficulties in estimating the costs of so called &#8220;defensive medicine&#8221;, and the fact that one physician&#8217;s defensive medicine is another&#8217;s necessary care.  Or even the fact that without the profit motive, certain tests may not be as likely to be ordered in a single payer system.  Put aside all that.</p>
<p>I think the problem with comparing other legal malpractice systems is that you also have to compare the healthcare system in conjunction.  The need for pursuing a claim for future medical bills and lost wages and your overall decline in the quality of your life is not as urgent in countries with a deeper social safety net than that provided by the US.  Even things like the relatively inexpensive availability of public transportation in places like that matter.  If a person injured in the US is looking at a lifetime of specialized care, and mountains of past medical bills, that&#8217;s an expensive proposition, which becomes less expensive in single payer systems.  </p>
<p>I say less expensive, but let&#8217;s be clear, the cost is the same overall, the paying party is just changed.  In Canada, it&#8217;s the taxpayer that picks up the tab for malpractice.  In the US, it&#8217;s the responsible party if the victim does not have the means to pay them themselves.  So do we want the responsible party paying for the harm they caused, or do we want all us taxpayers sharing that cost?  It&#8217;s a philisophical question.  Just because Americans FILE claims more often than Canadians doesn&#8217;t mean health care is any cheaper there.  It may mean simply that the injured party isn&#8217;t responsible for the direct cost of resulting damage so the incentive for filing isn&#8217;t there.  And remember, filed claims don&#8217;t equal paid claims.</p>
<p>So simply to say, well, any cost savings is solely attributable to one thing is dangerous.  If physicians go that route, they will eventually find people looking at the salaries of Canadian and US physicians and wondering why the difference and perhaps some money could be saved there as well.</p>
<p>You say you think &#8220;malpractice reform&#8221; would change things, but there are myriad proposed reforms out there now, so without being more specific it&#8217;s hard to say.  It&#8217;s like saying that healthcare reform would save money.  Without knowing the specific proposed reform, how can you make that determination?  </p>
<p>And while you may be a fan of &#8220;health courts&#8221;, even if they were not a backdoor version of arbitrary caps, they still have a cost.  You&#8217;re creating a whole group of experts, judges, staff, etc. at least one in every state if not more, to be paid by the taxpayer rather than the parties to the litigation.  And the injured victim and the other party are still going to have lawyers, still going to have insurance, etc.   So if you haven&#8217;t analyzed those costs, you aren&#8217;t being honest about the cost comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: JPB</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/4594/comment-page-1#comment-528509</link>
		<dc:creator>JPB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medrants.com/?p=4594#comment-528509</guid>
		<description>There is one element that I never see mentioned.  Doctors have been terrible about policing their profession.  Until that happens, patients who have been harmed have no choice but to sue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is one element that I never see mentioned.  Doctors have been terrible about policing their profession.  Until that happens, patients who have been harmed have no choice but to sue.</p>
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		<title>By: Web Media Daily &#8211; Tues. June 30, 2009 &#124; Reinventing Yourself...</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/4594/comment-page-1#comment-528507</link>
		<dc:creator>Web Media Daily &#8211; Tues. June 30, 2009 &#124; Reinventing Yourself...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.medrants.com/?p=4594#comment-528507</guid>
		<description>[...] Commentaries on malpractice &#8230;DB&#8217;s Medical Rants [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Commentaries on malpractice &#8230;DB&#8217;s Medical Rants [...]</p>
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