I spent Saturday and Sunday morning meeting with internal medicine leaders. We discussed many topics, but one surprised me. Several leaders decried the “current generation” having lesser diagnostic skills then those of our generation.
I am not sure that I agree with this assessment, but if it is true then we can blame several factors. First, as diagnostic testing (especially CTs and MRIs) proliferates, we too often resort to testing rather than thinking. Too often I see tests ordered without a clear rationale.
Second, I wonder if educators all spend time discussing the diagnostic process. I believe our training program emphasizes diagnostic thinking. We devote daily morning reports on diagnosis rather than management – allowing the team attending to focus on management issues. Perhaps other programs do not share this focus.
Possibly, I was meeting with old guys who like to criticize the younger generation. I am not sure – but I do suspect that this factors into the discussion.
Finally, our current report cards and P4P schemes do not value diagnosis. That clearly must impact how some physicians think (or do not think.)
So what do you think. Are we losing the art of diagnosis?
free viagra
buy viagra online
generic viagra
how does viagra work
cheap viagra
buy viagra
buy viagra online inurl
viagra 6 free samples
viagra online
viagra for women
viagra side effects
female viagra
natural viagra
online viagra
cheapest viagra prices
herbal viagra
alternative to viagra
buy generic viagra
purchase viagra online
free viagra without prescription
viagra attorneys
free viagra samples before buying
buy generic viagra cheap
viagra uk
generic viagra online
try viagra for free
generic viagra from india
fda approves viagra
free viagra sample
what is better viagra or levitra
discount generic viagra online
viagra cialis levitra
viagra dosage
viagra cheap
viagra on line
best price for viagra
free sample pack of viagra
viagra generic
viagra without prescription
discount viagra
gay viagra
mail order viagra
viagra inurl
generic viagra online paypal
generic viagra overnight
generic viagra online pharmacy
generic viagra uk
buy cheap viagra online uk
suppliers of viagra
how long does viagra last
viagra sex
generic viagra soft tabs
generic viagra 100mg
buy viagra onli
generic viagra online without prescription
viagra energy drink
cheapest uk supplier viagra
viagra cialis
generic viagra safe
viagra professional
viagra sales
viagra free trial pack
viagra lawyers
over the counter viagra
best price for generic viagra
viagra jokes
buying viagra
viagra samples
viagra sample
cialis
generic cialis
cheapest cialis
buy cialis online
buying generic cialis
cialis for order
what are the side effects of cialis
buy generic cialis
what is the generic name for cialis
cheap cialis
cialis online
buy cialis
cialis side effects
how long does cialis last
cialis forum
cialis lawyer ohio
cialis attorneys
cialis attorney columbus
cialis injury lawyer ohio
cialis injury attorney ohio
cialis injury lawyer columbus
prices cialis
cialis lawyers
viagra cialis levitra
cialis lawyer columbus
online generic cialis
daily cialis
cialis injury attorney columbus
cialis attorney ohio
cialis cost
cialis professional
cialis super active
how does cialis work
what does cialis look like
cialis drug
viagra cialis
cialis to buy new zealand
cialis without prescription
free cialis
cialis soft tabs
discount cialis
cialis generic
generic cialis from india
cheap cialis sale online
cialis daily
cialis reviews
cialis generico
how can i take cialis
cheap cialis si
cialis vs viagra
levitra
generic levitra
levitra attorneys
what is better viagra or levitra
viagra cialis levitra
levitra side effects
buy levitra
levitra online
levitra dangers
how does levitra work
levitra lawyers
what is the difference between levitra and viagra
levitra versus viagra
which works better viagra or levitra
buy levitra and overnight shipping
levitra vs viagra
canidan pharmacies levitra
how long does levitra last
viagra cialis levitra
levitra acheter
comprare levitra
levitra ohne rezept
levitra 20mg
levitra senza ricetta
cheapest generic levitra
levitra compra
cheap levitra
levitra overnight
levitra generika
levitra kaufen


{ 7 comments… read them below or add one }
I don’t think there’s any question that physical diagnosis has given way to diagnostic imaging. In some situations, this is not a bad thing. Take heart murmurs, for example. While in med school in the seventies, we’d get two eminent cardiologists to listen to the same patient’s murmur and often get two different diagnoses. Now, echo gives a far better evaluation. That being said, the great conjunction of managed care and defensive medicine nurtured the growth and development of the imaging reflex. Since time spent with the patient – history IS the cornerstone of diagnosis – is not reimbursed commensurate with importance, it’s much easier to reach for that referral pad and order a battery of tests than sit with a patient to glean all the info pertinent to the ailment. Additionally, secondary and sometimes tertiary tests are then ordered to substantiate findings and to rule out zebras should an untoward event occur. So in that sense, Greybeard is right.
I have to go with Art on this one. Doctors are paid for office visits and test, so we get test and office visits. Doctors do not want to even take a history, preferring the safety and income of new test. These test lead to even more test, because we just can’t be too sure.
My personal favorite is medicating and then testing. This does not give a true baseline reading and you know the outcome will be to continue medication, “because you are doing so well.”
Diagnosis is a lost art. Other than statements of impending doom, I don’t remember the last time a doctor made a simple statement that I had a specific problem.
Steve Lucas
Very few moments in my first two semesters of lecture were spent on the diagnostic process. One anatomy instructor did take several periods to do small exercises, and two physiology instructors took some time.
But, in the first year, it did not happen very often.
I’m just reporting my experience.
-j
Let’s remember that it’s not necessarily an either-or situation. The best medicine combines a balance of traditional diagnostic skills AND judicious use of high-tech imaging and tests. There are certain clues I can get by talking to the patient and reading her verbal and nonverbal responses and there are certain clues that I can get from a quick ultrasound. The art of medicine requires putting it all together to make the best decisions.
Just so you know: When the younger generation gets together and talks about the “old school” we generally regard them as out of touch Luddites. I’m sure that you did the same.
There is another way to look at this. Take a hypothetical analogy: lets say I invented two diagnostic machines – one is inexpensive but low sensitivity and specificity the other is expensive but high sensitivity and specificity. Which would you choose to help your patient?
Isn’t that analagous to using clinical diagnostic tests or choosing to use expensive studies?
You could diagnose an acute MI from Hx and physicial, or use diagnostic testing. Which would you choose?
I am sure we all agree that we must have both clinical skills and good judgement for using tests, but I am not sure that we have lost the art of diagnosis just because we now use more technologies to assist us.
I came to the conclusion that the art of medicine was lost after my mother spent 17 weeks in Kaiser and suffered immensely as a result of doctors with poor diagnostic skills, ignored histories and no physical examinations.
Despite a loud bruit in her left neck they all reported ‘no bruits’. Despite severe abdominal pain detected by the nurses, they refused to examine her as her Hb/Hct dropped and I finally made them stop ASA on an empty stomach and give her H2 blockers. Ultimately, she ended up with 8 units of pRBC during her stay. When she presented with a HR of 40 they immediately placed a PM and that procedure left her lethargic, on O2 and bedridden after she’d been awake, O2 free and transferring from bed and toilet to her motorized chair.
3 days later she had a red streak going down her left arm from the PM site and her white count varied from 30K to 13 K in the ensuing weeks with inept ID doctors hesitant to treat, despite positive BCs of staph epi and pleural effusions with a LLL infiltrate developed after the PM was placed. They sent in harp players and did very little for her. They gave up on her, refusing to listen to me, her physician child. She was discharged 7 times only to return within 24 hours with paroxysmal hypertension, refractory to clonidine, ntg, etc and finally was intubated for bilateral flash pulmonary edema.
The cardiologist and intensivist pulmonologist called it pneumonia, though she was fine prior to her 240 systolic accelerated hypertension. She was needlessly started on triple antibiotic therapy but that was stopped the next day when her lung xray showed clearing. Finally, they called me to ask what I wanted to do. After speaking with a brilliant colleague I hadn’t seen in 15 years, a nephrologist, I gave them a anti-hypertensive regimen that has worked now for 8 weeks. I remember the cardiologist saying he had to go along with the pulmonologist. I remember a doctor pulling her O2 to see how she would do despite a BNP of 1200.
4 hospitals, 50 doctors, lots of money. Only recently, after continued lethargy and sleeping an astute older doctor, ER doc, drew a TSH. It was 37. Her bradycardia was due to hypothyroidism, her severe reaction to opiates, fetanyl during the PM procedure was due to hypothyroidism, her foot ulcer and sacral ulcer, her severe leg pain, her flash pulmonary edema and her respiratory failure were all due to hypothyroidism.
My first question to them, in the very beginning was, what was her TSH. They said normal. It was not. I am angry and have lost any confidence in today’s doctors who refuse to speak with or examine their patients and pretend to make magical diagnosis that are more often than not incorrect. The art of medicine is gone, the ability to think lost and the new doctors little more than unskilled technicians.
If I hadn’t seen it I definitely would not believe it. Had I not been around, had some seasoned RNs not been around, my mother, who is doing much better and at home now, would be dead. No diagnositic acumen and no accountability. National health care will be a disaster for patients who cannot sue their HMOs. I am ashamed of what once was the medical profession.
{ 1 trackback }