In which I respond to the curmudgeon comments

by rcentor on July 14, 2007

Some respondents make my points for me.

Tom said,

Ultimately, medicine is a job. That is, a part of your life, but, ideally, not your entire life.

While Tom is technically correct, I believe that we should distinguish between the concepts of job and profession. I shudder at this attitude. Now I do believe in establishing a reasonable balance between my profession and my personal life. That being said, sometimes being a physician trumps other aspects of my life. I love playing golf, but sometimes rounds take priority.

Most physicians do balance being a physician and being a person. Those who do not are probably motivated more by money, or just love the physician role.

Panda Bear says,

Personally, I find the thought of spending five years working as an indentured servant, sucking it up and not complaining for fear of offending the old school, revolting. Why, for example, is sleep deprivation necessary for medical training and why is the training so inefficient that it takes three years of 120 hour weeks to get a handle on it. These kind of things are ridiculous to my generation.

Now Panda Bear is a bright blogger and very thoughtful. But the Panda has no clue here. No resident should work more than 80 hours a week – that is an ACGME requirement.

It does take time to develop expertise. I have spent my career in graduate medical education. In internal medicine and family medicine (the two areas I know best) it does take 3 years to develop your clinical skills. Compare 3rd residents with new 1st residents (interns). The intern may be able to take a test, but they are much less skilled in caring for patients.

Residents are not indentured. They receive a reasonable salary, and many also moonlight for more money.

I view the residents with whom I work as trainees who are developing their skills. They seems generally happy, and enjoy their experience. Now there are exceptions, as there always were.

Finally, in response to Matt – I do believe that retainer medicine (which some call concierge medicine) is the correct model for primary care. One needs time to properly care for patients. Those who do retainer medicine provide better care and seem much happier with their practice.

In rereading my comments, I stand by them. I brace myself for more critiques.

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{ 7 comments… read them below or add one }

phil July 15, 2007 at 9:09 am

I want my first year post-training salary to match my debt load (principle only). This means that I’m going to be looking for a salary of at least 180,000.

Then, I’d like to have a life. I’d like to be free to enjoy a vacation or spend time with my family.

To do this, you cannot be in primary care. The hours are too long and the pay is too low.

Plenty of older physicians do not understand how much training has changed since theirs ended.

Tom July 15, 2007 at 12:05 pm

Your appeal to consider medicine as a profession rather than a job is noted. I believe that you are right to make the appeal, and that the appeal should be heard. However, the response to that appeal will, and must be, highly individual. Many after completing residencies, feel that they have fulfilled their obligation to the profession. To saddle them with obligations not of their choosing is, I believe, wrong. You must know several who have dedicated themselves, body and soul, to the practice of medicine, forsaking all others. Their zeal is admirable, but not everyone is a zealot.

For those with families, there must be a competing interest with medicine. I would hesitate to equate golf with family, at least when considering whether to respond to that off-call page while at dinner with my spouse, or while holding a screaming child while my spouse is away.

I utterly fail to see what would make you shudder at the thought of some-one considering their profession (or job) being a part of their life, but not their entire life. Some of us play multiple roles: physician, parent, advisor, consoler. One could legitimately argue that those other roles can take primacy over the role of physician.

PCB July 15, 2007 at 2:44 pm

My guess is that many top med students like the theory of generalist office based medicine but go elsewhere due to the realities they quickly see in their training.

Theory:
Caring for the whole community. Establishing relationships over time.
Advising and counseling patients who have come to trust you.
Wide knowledge base.
Having an idea what to do (or where to refer) for almost any problem that walks in the door.
Variety in your workday.
Relaxed (usually) clinic atmosphere.

Reality:
Overwhelming schedules.
Little time to establish relationships and/or advise and cousel patients, and/or build trust.
Scratching and clawing for any part of the reimbursement pie.
NP or PA at minute clinics picking the well paying quick visits out of your schedule.
Pay for performance providing a glimpse of future reimbursement that penalizes doctors who care for more difficult patients.

Med students see the realities and vote with their feet. Can you blame them?
How many Family Physicians or General Internal Physicians reading this blog (Sorry DB, non hospitalists only) would tell their children to go into generalist office based medicine?

As usual, it comes down to time, which comes down to money. Better reimbursement for clinic medicine would lead to more reasonable schedules, more time for patients, and happier generalist physicians. Happier and professionally satisfied generalist physicians would result in more med students signing up for a professionally satisfying career. (DB knows the imporance of time, so this should be no surprise.)

Autachi July 15, 2007 at 9:01 pm

In response to DB’s comments on resident work hours and training, I think it’s more the exception than the rule to be within the 80 hour guidelines. And even at 80 hours, resident salary is at the 40-50k range so that works out to about 11$/hour. So essentially, we pay the guy at Fry’s the same amount to service your computer as we would a third year resident to treat your mother’s CHF or lead a code when your grandpa goes into shock. We’re not indentured servants (speaking now as a fam med resident), but we do it anyways. What else are we supposed to do? We come out of school with debt up to our ears, so we need to work. We have to accept the conditions of the residency programs – the call schedule, the salary, the working environment. For 11$ an hour, we have to stay up every third to fourth night, essentially treating patients with the same mental capacity as if we were drunk. But, again, what can we do? Engage in collective bargaining? Go on strike? While I think such actions are entirely appropriate – and I’m sure any other worker would feel the same – our label as “professional” essentially hobbles us. We can’t take such a drastic action. Professionals can’t strike, otherwise we would’ve ended this nonsense of q3 call and 11$hour pay long ago.

BTW – I still love medicine and genuinely enjoy helping my patients. It’s just that rent is coming due, and I’m feeling the pinch. =)

Jonathan C. July 16, 2007 at 7:38 am

The 80 hour work week is more of a guideline than a rule. I’m forced to fake most of the hours, and I count my lucky stars when they actually fall within 80 hours.

As for the point about indentured servants, well, we are indentured servants. Like Autachi said, I have an enormous amount of debt after four years of college and four years of medical school. Without residency, I have no hope of ever paying that off.

So while the rest of my college friends continue to finish paying off their first house and take their new born out for a walk in the park, I’m left sleeping in the hospital.

I do this because I love it, but damn, I want a life too. Is that really so wrong?

Panda Bear July 16, 2007 at 5:40 pm

I am well aware of the 80-hour week. I happen to have been in programs where it was observed even though I know that many other programs use it as just a guideline. I was just saying that if the Old Guard had their way there would be no restrictions at all on how much a resident could be made to work.

The salary is not reasonable. Medicare pays hospitals three times my salary per year so, even taking into account overhead, residents are a huge profit-center for hospitals even without considering the usefiul work we do.

For most of my training my salary has hovered around nine to ten bucks an hour. I know of a MacDonalds that pays eight bucks an hour. As for moonlighting, sure, it’s great, but it’s not free money. Essentially you have to work a job on top of your job…and my program does not allow outside moonlighting and only pays about 40 bucks an hour for picking up “gaps” in the call schedule at one of our hospitals. A tough way to make a few hundred bucks.

RJ July 16, 2007 at 10:19 pm

I understand medical residents get paid very little. How come then that as soon as residents become attendings they forget how bad they have it and do little to advocate for residents. Also, if doctors weren’t so spineless/generous and had a little business savvy they would be rolling in dough instead of making as much as I did when I was 16. I’m a medical student debating whether I should become a real doctor or a radiologist

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