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	<title>Comments on: Medical instincts</title>
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	<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2595</link>
	<description>Internal medicine, American health care, and especially medical education</description>
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		<title>By: dr bikash bhattacharjee</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2595/comment-page-1#comment-305312</link>
		<dc:creator>dr bikash bhattacharjee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>the pt has metabolic alkalosis: delta gap is 45(142-97). no evidence of metabolic acidosis. respiratory acidosis not producinng accessory resp muscle hypertrophy is probably not practical. i have to account that he has no secondary hyperaldosteronism (no hypokalemia0. that leaves primery
hyperaldosteronim. could it be a tumour of suprarenal  gl.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the pt has metabolic alkalosis: delta gap is 45(142-97). no evidence of metabolic acidosis. respiratory acidosis not producinng accessory resp muscle hypertrophy is probably not practical. i have to account that he has no secondary hyperaldosteronism (no hypokalemia0. that leaves primery<br />
hyperaldosteronim. could it be a tumour of suprarenal  gl.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2595/comment-page-1#comment-97118</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2595#comment-97118</guid>
		<description>I came to the same (preliminary) conclusion as Eric, Jeff, Colin, etc. My thinking went...

Divide metabolic alkaloses into 2 groups: chloride sensitive, and chloride resistant.

Chloride sensitive is due to hypovolemia; my med skool &quot;mnemonic&quot; was VDD...vomiting, diarrhea, diuretics. They can all produce a &quot;contraction alkalosis&quot;, due to physiologic secretion of mineralocorticoid. Exceptions: cholera; carbonic anhydrase inhibitors both give an *acidosis*. Otherwise, all 3 of VDD would also frequently lead to low potassium.

Chloride resistent alkalosis I remembered with BHH...Bartter, hyperaldosteronism (primary, as in Conn &amp; Cushing), and post-*Hypercapnic* alkalosis. The first two will lower potassium. This leaves us with the post-hypercapnia scenario, presumably caused by his nighttime hypoventilation, and the compensatory elevation of his bicarb.

A cheap and simple test (if clinical signs are ambiguous) is the urine chloride; if less than 20 mmol/L, he&#039;s hypovolemic. This seems less likely with the peripheral edema, why I doubt, Jeff, that diuretics play a role. If alkalosis is chloride resistant, expect a level over 40.

Makes one curious about his arterial blood gases too, particularly pH...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came to the same (preliminary) conclusion as Eric, Jeff, Colin, etc. My thinking went&#8230;</p>
<p>Divide metabolic alkaloses into 2 groups: chloride sensitive, and chloride resistant.</p>
<p>Chloride sensitive is due to hypovolemia; my med skool &#8220;mnemonic&#8221; was VDD&#8230;vomiting, diarrhea, diuretics. They can all produce a &#8220;contraction alkalosis&#8221;, due to physiologic secretion of mineralocorticoid. Exceptions: cholera; carbonic anhydrase inhibitors both give an *acidosis*. Otherwise, all 3 of VDD would also frequently lead to low potassium.</p>
<p>Chloride resistent alkalosis I remembered with BHH&#8230;Bartter, hyperaldosteronism (primary, as in Conn &amp; Cushing), and post-*Hypercapnic* alkalosis. The first two will lower potassium. This leaves us with the post-hypercapnia scenario, presumably caused by his nighttime hypoventilation, and the compensatory elevation of his bicarb.</p>
<p>A cheap and simple test (if clinical signs are ambiguous) is the urine chloride; if less than 20 mmol/L, he&#8217;s hypovolemic. This seems less likely with the peripheral edema, why I doubt, Jeff, that diuretics play a role. If alkalosis is chloride resistant, expect a level over 40.</p>
<p>Makes one curious about his arterial blood gases too, particularly pH&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2595/comment-page-1#comment-97029</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 06:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2595#comment-97029</guid>
		<description>This is a very good way to learn (and to teach, I guess).

I also vote that the pt is retaining CO2 (obesity hypoventilation syndrome); there is also the possibility that an &quot;outside facility&quot; gave him some Lasix for his edema but the normal K makes me less suspicious of this.

If his LV function really is normal, he probably has some component of cor pulmonale/pulmonary HTN (or both) causing the leg edema.

Great teaching case for house staff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very good way to learn (and to teach, I guess).</p>
<p>I also vote that the pt is retaining CO2 (obesity hypoventilation syndrome); there is also the possibility that an &#8220;outside facility&#8221; gave him some Lasix for his edema but the normal K makes me less suspicious of this.</p>
<p>If his LV function really is normal, he probably has some component of cor pulmonale/pulmonary HTN (or both) causing the leg edema.</p>
<p>Great teaching case for house staff.</p>
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		<title>By: jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2595/comment-page-1#comment-96992</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2005 02:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2595#comment-96992</guid>
		<description>I agree with OSA as the cause of the cause of the elevated bicarbonate.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with OSA as the cause of the cause of the elevated bicarbonate.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2595/comment-page-1#comment-96970</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good answer. 

Off topic I think this post is an argument for problem based learning. Instead of reading about GI motility like I was suppose to it was much more interesting to jump ahead to acid base phys and look online for answers to this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good answer. </p>
<p>Off topic I think this post is an argument for problem based learning. Instead of reading about GI motility like I was suppose to it was much more interesting to jump ahead to acid base phys and look online for answers to this.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandy</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2595/comment-page-1#comment-96969</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2595#comment-96969</guid>
		<description>I agree with Ross, most probably related to hypercapnia related to sleep apnea</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ross, most probably related to hypercapnia related to sleep apnea</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2595/comment-page-1#comment-96960</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2595#comment-96960</guid>
		<description>Metabolic alkalosis to compensate for respiratory acidosis in turn likely due to obesity/hypoventilation syndrome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Metabolic alkalosis to compensate for respiratory acidosis in turn likely due to obesity/hypoventilation syndrome.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2595/comment-page-1#comment-96953</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Isn&#039;t the increase in bicarbonate a normal mechanism to compensate for the acidosis caused by hypercapnia from sleep apnea?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t the increase in bicarbonate a normal mechanism to compensate for the acidosis caused by hypercapnia from sleep apnea?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: autolycos</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2595/comment-page-1#comment-96952</link>
		<dc:creator>autolycos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>60 year old veteran, huge abdomen, alkalosis.  I&#039;d suspect either impaired liver (hepatic cirrhosis) or excessive hyperventilation-perhaps anxiety related.

I am very interested in this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>60 year old veteran, huge abdomen, alkalosis.  I&#8217;d suspect either impaired liver (hepatic cirrhosis) or excessive hyperventilation-perhaps anxiety related.</p>
<p>I am very interested in this.</p>
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