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	<title>Comments on: More on calling a patient obese</title>
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	<description>Contemplating medicine and the health care system</description>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2494/comment-page-1#comment-302399</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 18:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2494#comment-302399</guid>
		<description>By the way, I have bipolar disorder.  It is well known that this medical condition causes uncontrollable carbohydrate cravings, and severely increases risks of obesity, type II diabetes, and heart disease.

So don&#039;t try to tell me that it&#039;s just as easy and mildly unpleasant for me to lose weight as it is for the skinny chick in the waiting room.  It&#039;s a known medical fact that that&#039;s not true.

My doctor is truthful with me about my health risks from my weight.  She is helpful in recommending what kinds and level of exercise are medically appropriate, and what food choices will help if I can manage to make them.

I need to know that, so I know what exercise I should do now, and what I should eat now, instead of what weight loss efforts would be actively dangerous.

The line between professional and unprofessional conduct is when truth becomes divorced from compassion, and when practical advice is replaced with blame and rancor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, I have bipolar disorder.  It is well known that this medical condition causes uncontrollable carbohydrate cravings, and severely increases risks of obesity, type II diabetes, and heart disease.</p>
<p>So don&#8217;t try to tell me that it&#8217;s just as easy and mildly unpleasant for me to lose weight as it is for the skinny chick in the waiting room.  It&#8217;s a known medical fact that that&#8217;s not true.</p>
<p>My doctor is truthful with me about my health risks from my weight.  She is helpful in recommending what kinds and level of exercise are medically appropriate, and what food choices will help if I can manage to make them.</p>
<p>I need to know that, so I know what exercise I should do now, and what I should eat now, instead of what weight loss efforts would be actively dangerous.</p>
<p>The line between professional and unprofessional conduct is when truth becomes divorced from compassion, and when practical advice is replaced with blame and rancor.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2494/comment-page-1#comment-302397</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 18:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2494#comment-302397</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m fat.  My husband is fat.  It&#039;s unhealthy.  Fine.

The relationship between doctor and patient is economic.  *You* may think you have some sort of metaphysical guardianship of my health.  *I* think I&#039;m paying an alleged professional to provide the service of telling me things I may not already know about my health---like a tumor or something, and to provide the service of treating the illnesses I complain of in the most effective way possible *regardless of the behavior I choose in my personal life*.

Why should Doctor X treat my high blood pressure if I&#039;m just going to be dead in ten years because of my weight?  Because that&#039;s what I&#039;m paying him for!

Priesthood is a sacred trust.  Medicine is a profession.

If you aren&#039;t going to alleviate my symptoms or treat my problem with the best technology available regardless of my behavior in my personal life, then show me the door and don&#039;t charge me for the visit where you tell me so.

I&#039;ll go find a business where the professional I hire will do his job instead of whining at the customer.

I know being fat is unhealthy.  And when the pharmaceutical companies come up with a medical treatment that lets me stay slim with the same level of effort and personal discomfort slim people go through, I&#039;ll lose weight.  Fat people may lose weight eating the same amounts as skinny people, but restricting our intake to those amounts is much more unpleasant, every hour of every single day, week, and year we do it.  It&#039;s living in hell.

I know I&#039;m fat.  My husband knows he&#039;s fat.  You know what?  I&#039;m not going to live a living hell, and neither is he, just for the sake of not being fat---and don&#039;t tell me that&#039;s not what it takes because it *is*.

If you can&#039;t do your job for a particular customer because our behavior offends you, then don&#039;t take us as customers.  

If you do choose to take me as a customer, don&#039;t lie to me, just don&#039;t waste my time nagging me about behavior I know damn well is unhealthy---just treat my ills as best you can working *around* my behavior in my personal life.

Professional:  You need to lose sixty pounds in a responsible way.  Your extra weight is causing or worsening [list of problems].  I want you exercising like so, I have a brochure on how to eat right.  Please read it and, if you have any questions, ask.  Now, about your cholesterol levels, here&#039;s what we can do medically with the situation as it stands....  Your weight problem is at the level that bariatric surgery may help you.  If you don&#039;t follow this diet I can&#039;t keep your blood sugar down and you could lose your eyesight or your limbs.  If working together we can&#039;t get fifty pounds off of you, you could have a heart attack at any time and fall over dead.  If we can&#039;t get fifty pounds off you, it could kill you within ten years no matter what else I can do for you.  If you don&#039;t think you can handle hearing about it today, I&#039;d like you to schedule time with (me, specialist, whatever) for a weight loss consultation.

Unprofessional:  You&#039;re fat.  If you don&#039;t lose weight you&#039;re going to die.  If I was as fat as you I&#039;d my knees would hurt, too.  Why should I treat your cholesterol with pills when you won&#039;t take off the weight?  What you need isn&#039;t this ingrown toenail fixed, you need bariatric surgery.

If I wanted to pay money to be insulted and punished, I&#039;d hire a dominatrix, not a doctor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m fat.  My husband is fat.  It&#8217;s unhealthy.  Fine.</p>
<p>The relationship between doctor and patient is economic.  *You* may think you have some sort of metaphysical guardianship of my health.  *I* think I&#8217;m paying an alleged professional to provide the service of telling me things I may not already know about my health&#8212;like a tumor or something, and to provide the service of treating the illnesses I complain of in the most effective way possible *regardless of the behavior I choose in my personal life*.</p>
<p>Why should Doctor X treat my high blood pressure if I&#8217;m just going to be dead in ten years because of my weight?  Because that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m paying him for!</p>
<p>Priesthood is a sacred trust.  Medicine is a profession.</p>
<p>If you aren&#8217;t going to alleviate my symptoms or treat my problem with the best technology available regardless of my behavior in my personal life, then show me the door and don&#8217;t charge me for the visit where you tell me so.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll go find a business where the professional I hire will do his job instead of whining at the customer.</p>
<p>I know being fat is unhealthy.  And when the pharmaceutical companies come up with a medical treatment that lets me stay slim with the same level of effort and personal discomfort slim people go through, I&#8217;ll lose weight.  Fat people may lose weight eating the same amounts as skinny people, but restricting our intake to those amounts is much more unpleasant, every hour of every single day, week, and year we do it.  It&#8217;s living in hell.</p>
<p>I know I&#8217;m fat.  My husband knows he&#8217;s fat.  You know what?  I&#8217;m not going to live a living hell, and neither is he, just for the sake of not being fat&#8212;and don&#8217;t tell me that&#8217;s not what it takes because it *is*.</p>
<p>If you can&#8217;t do your job for a particular customer because our behavior offends you, then don&#8217;t take us as customers.  </p>
<p>If you do choose to take me as a customer, don&#8217;t lie to me, just don&#8217;t waste my time nagging me about behavior I know damn well is unhealthy&#8212;just treat my ills as best you can working *around* my behavior in my personal life.</p>
<p>Professional:  You need to lose sixty pounds in a responsible way.  Your extra weight is causing or worsening [list of problems].  I want you exercising like so, I have a brochure on how to eat right.  Please read it and, if you have any questions, ask.  Now, about your cholesterol levels, here&#8217;s what we can do medically with the situation as it stands&#8230;.  Your weight problem is at the level that bariatric surgery may help you.  If you don&#8217;t follow this diet I can&#8217;t keep your blood sugar down and you could lose your eyesight or your limbs.  If working together we can&#8217;t get fifty pounds off of you, you could have a heart attack at any time and fall over dead.  If we can&#8217;t get fifty pounds off you, it could kill you within ten years no matter what else I can do for you.  If you don&#8217;t think you can handle hearing about it today, I&#8217;d like you to schedule time with (me, specialist, whatever) for a weight loss consultation.</p>
<p>Unprofessional:  You&#8217;re fat.  If you don&#8217;t lose weight you&#8217;re going to die.  If I was as fat as you I&#8217;d my knees would hurt, too.  Why should I treat your cholesterol with pills when you won&#8217;t take off the weight?  What you need isn&#8217;t this ingrown toenail fixed, you need bariatric surgery.</p>
<p>If I wanted to pay money to be insulted and punished, I&#8217;d hire a dominatrix, not a doctor.</p>
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		<title>By: WL</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2494/comment-page-1#comment-57489</link>
		<dc:creator>WL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2005 15:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2494#comment-57489</guid>
		<description>Obesity has hit epidemic proportions, and the morbidity therefrom is astronomical.  Early in this field -- yes, as early as 2nd year of medical school -- we are counseled to find an effective technique to motivate individuals to lose weight, quit smoking, cut back on too much alcohol, etc....  I would wager that outliving your spouse and then trying to find another mate might be an effective strategy for some.  

I don&#039;t think I would have done/said what this physician did/said.  I am NOT making judgments about the propriety of what was said because I obviously don&#039;t know the complete story, but SHEESH!!! -- tell the woman to get a life and just change doctors.  Referring this matter to local law enforcement -- from of all places the state medical board -- is shocking beyond belief.

In the scales of life, I wonder which is worse: hurting someone&#039;s feelings OR desperately trying to reduce their morbidity -- which is VERY high.  While the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive, ... I mean, God forbid I insult someone in an effort to help them.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obesity has hit epidemic proportions, and the morbidity therefrom is astronomical.  Early in this field &#8212; yes, as early as 2nd year of medical school &#8212; we are counseled to find an effective technique to motivate individuals to lose weight, quit smoking, cut back on too much alcohol, etc&#8230;.  I would wager that outliving your spouse and then trying to find another mate might be an effective strategy for some.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I would have done/said what this physician did/said.  I am NOT making judgments about the propriety of what was said because I obviously don&#8217;t know the complete story, but SHEESH!!! &#8212; tell the woman to get a life and just change doctors.  Referring this matter to local law enforcement &#8212; from of all places the state medical board &#8212; is shocking beyond belief.</p>
<p>In the scales of life, I wonder which is worse: hurting someone&#8217;s feelings OR desperately trying to reduce their morbidity &#8212; which is VERY high.  While the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive, &#8230; I mean, God forbid I insult someone in an effort to help them.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2494/comment-page-1#comment-57012</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2005 21:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2494#comment-57012</guid>
		<description>The initial report I read on this story said that the complaint included information that the physician had said something along the lines of &quot;you are probably going to outlive your husband and when you are single you will find that no men will be attracted to you because it&#039;s a well known fact that men are not attracted to obese women&quot;. This was listed as the reason the woman was so offended. 

I don&#039;t know if it is true as reported, but if so I don&#039;t think this would be the most appropriate argument to make for weight loss. I do know that I don&#039;t think it is actionable! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The initial report I read on this story said that the complaint included information that the physician had said something along the lines of &#8220;you are probably going to outlive your husband and when you are single you will find that no men will be attracted to you because it&#8217;s a well known fact that men are not attracted to obese women&#8221;. This was listed as the reason the woman was so offended. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if it is true as reported, but if so I don&#8217;t think this would be the most appropriate argument to make for weight loss. I do know that I don&#8217;t think it is actionable!</p>
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		<title>By: Kitty</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2494/comment-page-1#comment-57011</link>
		<dc:creator>Kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2005 21:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2494#comment-57011</guid>
		<description>I read on another board - and I don&#039;t know if it is true -that one of the things this doctor said was that she is likely to outlive her husband and that her prospects to find a new husband will not be good because most men will find her unattractive. Something like this. If this was indeed said, it doesn&#039;t sound like a proper medical advice to me; it is way worse than telling her that she is going to die if she doesn&#039;t loose weight. The latter may be a doctor&#039;s professional opinion, but the former is completely inappropriate and unprofessional (unless the doctor is in the matchmaking business and comments on the market).  

While I believe that involving Attorney General is way out of proportion, one cannot blame the woman for complaining, if this was what the doctor said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read on another board &#8211; and I don&#8217;t know if it is true -that one of the things this doctor said was that she is likely to outlive her husband and that her prospects to find a new husband will not be good because most men will find her unattractive. Something like this. If this was indeed said, it doesn&#8217;t sound like a proper medical advice to me; it is way worse than telling her that she is going to die if she doesn&#8217;t loose weight. The latter may be a doctor&#8217;s professional opinion, but the former is completely inappropriate and unprofessional (unless the doctor is in the matchmaking business and comments on the market).  </p>
<p>While I believe that involving Attorney General is way out of proportion, one cannot blame the woman for complaining, if this was what the doctor said.</p>
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		<title>By: cheryl baker</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2494/comment-page-1#comment-57009</link>
		<dc:creator>cheryl baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2494#comment-57009</guid>
		<description>   I have had a recent experience with a surgeon in a hospital close to my home, I went to him for a counseltaion for a possible thymectomy on recomendation from my neurologiest as I have myasthemia gravis, this doctor made comments to me about how I aloud myself to become so obses and that if I wasn&#039;t so obses I would not have myasthenia gravis, when telling him my sysptoms one being horness his comment to me was you have no problem swolling food. Keeping in mind that I&#039;m sitting there in his exame room with only a hospital gown on, with my husband being ridaculed by this doctor I left in tears and no offer of any help for myasthenia gravis, but told I should consider bareactric surgery, more was said but this will give you an idea of my view, and yes I.am obese but  I was not there for weight loss consultation. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had a recent experience with a surgeon in a hospital close to my home, I went to him for a counseltaion for a possible thymectomy on recomendation from my neurologiest as I have myasthemia gravis, this doctor made comments to me about how I aloud myself to become so obses and that if I wasn&#8217;t so obses I would not have myasthenia gravis, when telling him my sysptoms one being horness his comment to me was you have no problem swolling food. Keeping in mind that I&#8217;m sitting there in his exame room with only a hospital gown on, with my husband being ridaculed by this doctor I left in tears and no offer of any help for myasthenia gravis, but told I should consider bareactric surgery, more was said but this will give you an idea of my view, and yes I.am obese but  I was not there for weight loss consultation.</p>
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		<title>By: tina</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2494/comment-page-1#comment-56932</link>
		<dc:creator>tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2494#comment-56932</guid>
		<description>When my mom goes into the dr they always get mad at her because she smokes.  It is a yucky habit which will likely kill her however it is one of the most addictive drugs known.  

So, sure, tell her smoking will kill her and she should stop. Offer to help her find a way to quit smoking. However don&#039;t be the jerk who said &quot;Why should I bother treating your high blood pressure/degenerative disk disease/hypothyroidism when you are just going to be  dead in ten years?&quot;  It really happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When my mom goes into the dr they always get mad at her because she smokes.  It is a yucky habit which will likely kill her however it is one of the most addictive drugs known.  </p>
<p>So, sure, tell her smoking will kill her and she should stop. Offer to help her find a way to quit smoking. However don&#8217;t be the jerk who said &#8220;Why should I bother treating your high blood pressure/degenerative disk disease/hypothyroidism when you are just going to be  dead in ten years?&#8221;  It really happened.</p>
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		<title>By: WL</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2494/comment-page-1#comment-56508</link>
		<dc:creator>WL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2494#comment-56508</guid>
		<description>Like I&#039;ve previously said: If telling someone that they are overweight (or even IF we assume â€œfatâ€ for that matter) is what now passes as unprofessional conduct warranting prosecution by local/state law enforcement: 

(1) I have several attendings I should have been ratting out to law enforcement long ago; and, 

(2) THIS PROFESSION HAS FAR BIGGER ISSUES THAN MALPRACTICE REFORM. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like I&#8217;ve previously said: If telling someone that they are overweight (or even IF we assume â€œfatâ€ for that matter) is what now passes as unprofessional conduct warranting prosecution by local/state law enforcement: </p>
<p>(1) I have several attendings I should have been ratting out to law enforcement long ago; and, </p>
<p>(2) THIS PROFESSION HAS FAR BIGGER ISSUES THAN MALPRACTICE REFORM.</p>
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		<title>By: R.G. Lacsamana, M.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2494/comment-page-1#comment-56503</link>
		<dc:creator>R.G. Lacsamana, M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Aug 2005 12:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2494#comment-56503</guid>
		<description>Another case of political correctness gone overboard. For a patient to be traumatized for being told the truth, and calling Big Brother to punish her doctor for doing his duty, is chilling that should send shivers to the medical community. I&#039;m puzzled at why the Board of Medicine is even involved here. 

I know there are ways to discuss sensitive matters with patients, obesity being one of them, and unless the doctor insulted this patient in any derogatory manner, I see no need for him to apologize. Just hoping she won&#039;t be consulting a trial lawyer soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another case of political correctness gone overboard. For a patient to be traumatized for being told the truth, and calling Big Brother to punish her doctor for doing his duty, is chilling that should send shivers to the medical community. I&#8217;m puzzled at why the Board of Medicine is even involved here. </p>
<p>I know there are ways to discuss sensitive matters with patients, obesity being one of them, and unless the doctor insulted this patient in any derogatory manner, I see no need for him to apologize. Just hoping she won&#8217;t be consulting a trial lawyer soon.</p>
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		<title>By: VT doc</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2494/comment-page-1#comment-56228</link>
		<dc:creator>VT doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Aug 2005 04:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/?p=2494#comment-56228</guid>
		<description>yeah, what about those &quot;live free or die&quot; licensce plates.
Aren&#039;t they made by prisoners?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, what about those &#8220;live free or die&#8221; licensce plates.<br />
Aren&#8217;t they made by prisoners?</p>
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