<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: National health insurance &#8211; beware the externalities</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.medrants.com/archives/2337/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2337</link>
	<description>Internal medicine, American health care, and especially medical education</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 15:15:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erick</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2337/comment-page-1#comment-513391</link>
		<dc:creator>Erick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 22:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2005/04/15/national-health-insurance-beware-the-externalities/#comment-513391</guid>
		<description>Just as an aside here...

Liberals would be greatly aided if they recognized this one general thing about conservatives. Virtually every argument by conservatives, libertarians, and free market advocates relies on these 2 assumptions:

1) Economic well-being is the most important thing in life.
2) A bigger economic pie is always better than a smaller pie, regardless of how it is divided.

If you agree with those 2 things, stop arguing and join them! They will always be right... and they are right, coincidentally. It all comes down to a simply mathematical maximization problem.

If you don&#039;t agree with those 2 things, then just be aware that those are their 2 assumptions, whether they state them or not. What I find interesting is how they manage to argue and argue, so eloquently, and prove their point, time and time again, without ever getting anyone to question their 2 basic assumptions! Half the time they manage to win arguments without ever even stating their assumptions! It&#039;s quite a trick.

So, if things like &quot;way of life&quot;, &quot;cultural traditions&quot;, or solidarity mean anything to you, then you should seriously question assumption #1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just as an aside here&#8230;</p>
<p>Liberals would be greatly aided if they recognized this one general thing about conservatives. Virtually every argument by conservatives, libertarians, and free market advocates relies on these 2 assumptions:</p>
<p>1) Economic well-being is the most important thing in life.<br />
2) A bigger economic pie is always better than a smaller pie, regardless of how it is divided.</p>
<p>If you agree with those 2 things, stop arguing and join them! They will always be right&#8230; and they are right, coincidentally. It all comes down to a simply mathematical maximization problem.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t agree with those 2 things, then just be aware that those are their 2 assumptions, whether they state them or not. What I find interesting is how they manage to argue and argue, so eloquently, and prove their point, time and time again, without ever getting anyone to question their 2 basic assumptions! Half the time they manage to win arguments without ever even stating their assumptions! It&#8217;s quite a trick.</p>
<p>So, if things like &#8220;way of life&#8221;, &#8220;cultural traditions&#8221;, or solidarity mean anything to you, then you should seriously question assumption #1.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Erick</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2337/comment-page-1#comment-513383</link>
		<dc:creator>Erick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2005/04/15/national-health-insurance-beware-the-externalities/#comment-513383</guid>
		<description>Nothing is free, of course.

The argument over which system is &quot;best&quot; is a complicated one. How do you measure this? Are you talking about the &quot;typical&quot; care someone would expect to receive in either system? If this idea of &quot;best&quot; was clearly definable, then there would be no argument!

Take me, for instance. I basically have no preventative health care in the US right now. I work full time, but the company I work for is a small one. They don&#039;t pay me much either. I took out a high deductible insurance policy, even tough I have a math degree and understand statistics. It was about all I could afford on my salary. I don&#039;t go to the doctor, even if sick. I recently had a concussion and I hurt my shoulder. I just stayed in bed.

So, in effect I have no preventative care in the US. Clearly, for me, I would have &quot;better&quot; preventative care in the UK or Canada.

Assume we cede the dispute over which is &quot;better&quot;, and assume the insurance mediated free market system is &quot;best&quot;. The next question is more a sociological/moral one. How important is the idea of &quot;equality of distribution&quot; as applied to health care? What if, on &quot;average&quot; (however that is measured), we all had to accept WORSE care, but... everyone got that care. In other words, does the question about health care involve more than an &quot;economic&quot; answer?

After all, there is a very good analogy here... education. If education were left to the free market, there no doubt would spring up some really excellent schools out there. Rich people would send their kids there. Other, cheaper schools, with inferior teachers and resources would sprout up for those less fortunate. The really poor simply wouldn&#039;t send their kids to school at all. They wouldn&#039;t be able to afford it.

Collectively, we as a society recognized there were other considerations than the free market, quality of goods, and economic efficiency. In this case we recognized the importance of &quot;opportunity&quot; and an &quot;equality of distribution&quot;. Some people call this &quot;positive liberty&quot;, as contrasted with &quot;negative liberty&quot;.

I&#039;m certainly not a socialist or an advocate of communism. There exist no ideologically &quot;pure&quot; economies in the world today. All economies are effectively &quot;mixed&quot; economies to one degree or another. Any economics major can tell you all about trade offs. Well, the question we have to answer as a society is... is making health care available to all worth the trade off? Because, of course, nothing is ever free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing is free, of course.</p>
<p>The argument over which system is &#8220;best&#8221; is a complicated one. How do you measure this? Are you talking about the &#8220;typical&#8221; care someone would expect to receive in either system? If this idea of &#8220;best&#8221; was clearly definable, then there would be no argument!</p>
<p>Take me, for instance. I basically have no preventative health care in the US right now. I work full time, but the company I work for is a small one. They don&#8217;t pay me much either. I took out a high deductible insurance policy, even tough I have a math degree and understand statistics. It was about all I could afford on my salary. I don&#8217;t go to the doctor, even if sick. I recently had a concussion and I hurt my shoulder. I just stayed in bed.</p>
<p>So, in effect I have no preventative care in the US. Clearly, for me, I would have &#8220;better&#8221; preventative care in the UK or Canada.</p>
<p>Assume we cede the dispute over which is &#8220;better&#8221;, and assume the insurance mediated free market system is &#8220;best&#8221;. The next question is more a sociological/moral one. How important is the idea of &#8220;equality of distribution&#8221; as applied to health care? What if, on &#8220;average&#8221; (however that is measured), we all had to accept WORSE care, but&#8230; everyone got that care. In other words, does the question about health care involve more than an &#8220;economic&#8221; answer?</p>
<p>After all, there is a very good analogy here&#8230; education. If education were left to the free market, there no doubt would spring up some really excellent schools out there. Rich people would send their kids there. Other, cheaper schools, with inferior teachers and resources would sprout up for those less fortunate. The really poor simply wouldn&#8217;t send their kids to school at all. They wouldn&#8217;t be able to afford it.</p>
<p>Collectively, we as a society recognized there were other considerations than the free market, quality of goods, and economic efficiency. In this case we recognized the importance of &#8220;opportunity&#8221; and an &#8220;equality of distribution&#8221;. Some people call this &#8220;positive liberty&#8221;, as contrasted with &#8220;negative liberty&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m certainly not a socialist or an advocate of communism. There exist no ideologically &#8220;pure&#8221; economies in the world today. All economies are effectively &#8220;mixed&#8221; economies to one degree or another. Any economics major can tell you all about trade offs. Well, the question we have to answer as a society is&#8230; is making health care available to all worth the trade off? Because, of course, nothing is ever free.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Marilin Engelman</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2337/comment-page-1#comment-429378</link>
		<dc:creator>Marilin Engelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2005/04/15/national-health-insurance-beware-the-externalities/#comment-429378</guid>
		<description>Hi,
I would like to get on your e-mail list. As a co-convenor of the Suffolk County Gray Panthers on Long Island, your information would be so important for us to have,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
I would like to get on your e-mail list. As a co-convenor of the Suffolk County Gray Panthers on Long Island, your information would be so important for us to have,</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jesse of Maryland</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2337/comment-page-1#comment-344042</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse of Maryland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 01:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2005/04/15/national-health-insurance-beware-the-externalities/#comment-344042</guid>
		<description>Greetings,

Single Payer healthcare or a National System is most needed in our beautiful country, the USA.  I meet many good, honest, and hard working Americans that do not get Health Insurance through their employers, and are not eligeable to get health insurance on their own, either because they have a pre-existing condition, which private health insurance companies will not insure, or these people just flat out cant afford the high premiums and high deductibles of todays current health insurance costs.  I respect your opinions on your site, but when I think about all these good Americans that cant get health insurance, I completely disagree with you.  We need some kind of fix to our expensive Health Insurance system, and many doctors and other health care professionals agree.  Health Insurance companies, and especially pharmaceutical companies are a main cause of the inflated prices.  Health insurance premiums are ever increasing and go up more than inflation every year.   Private insurance companies are allowed to cherry pick who they accept onto their plans, because of underwriting.   

I am aware that most states have high risk pools for those people that have been turned down by private insurers, or with people that have pre-existing conditions.  The montly costs for these high risk pool plans are astronomical and most Americans cant afford the super high premium costs.  These are just some of the many credible, hard outlying facts of why we need a true national healthcare system.

Many good Americans need equal and affordable, access to healthcare.  I stress the word affordable.  

Thank you for your time, my fellow American.  I ask you and anyone who reads this to have a caring heart towards the many millions of Americans who are uninsured for various good reasons, or who are underinsured.  Our healthcare and health insurance system must be fixed and it will be in the future.

God Bless.
Jesse S.

I recommend all readers to read and check out www.healthcare-now.com  They are an organization that is pushing and lobbying congress to pass a true Nationwide Healthcare system, and the taxes on each American for it are very low.  Judge for yourself whether or not a true national healthcare system is good after reading this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greetings,</p>
<p>Single Payer healthcare or a National System is most needed in our beautiful country, the USA.  I meet many good, honest, and hard working Americans that do not get Health Insurance through their employers, and are not eligeable to get health insurance on their own, either because they have a pre-existing condition, which private health insurance companies will not insure, or these people just flat out cant afford the high premiums and high deductibles of todays current health insurance costs.  I respect your opinions on your site, but when I think about all these good Americans that cant get health insurance, I completely disagree with you.  We need some kind of fix to our expensive Health Insurance system, and many doctors and other health care professionals agree.  Health Insurance companies, and especially pharmaceutical companies are a main cause of the inflated prices.  Health insurance premiums are ever increasing and go up more than inflation every year.   Private insurance companies are allowed to cherry pick who they accept onto their plans, because of underwriting.   </p>
<p>I am aware that most states have high risk pools for those people that have been turned down by private insurers, or with people that have pre-existing conditions.  The montly costs for these high risk pool plans are astronomical and most Americans cant afford the super high premium costs.  These are just some of the many credible, hard outlying facts of why we need a true national healthcare system.</p>
<p>Many good Americans need equal and affordable, access to healthcare.  I stress the word affordable.  </p>
<p>Thank you for your time, my fellow American.  I ask you and anyone who reads this to have a caring heart towards the many millions of Americans who are uninsured for various good reasons, or who are underinsured.  Our healthcare and health insurance system must be fixed and it will be in the future.</p>
<p>God Bless.<br />
Jesse S.</p>
<p>I recommend all readers to read and check out <a href="http://www.healthcare-now.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.healthcare-now.com</a>  They are an organization that is pushing and lobbying congress to pass a true Nationwide Healthcare system, and the taxes on each American for it are very low.  Judge for yourself whether or not a true national healthcare system is good after reading this site.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: arf</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2337/comment-page-1#comment-19417</link>
		<dc:creator>arf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2005/04/15/national-health-insurance-beware-the-externalities/#comment-19417</guid>
		<description>For a good read regarding the realities of the single-payer systems worldwide:

Lives at Risk: Single-Payer National Health Insurance Around the World (Paperback)
by John C. Goodman, Gerald L. Musgrave, Devon M. Herrick
Publisher: Rowman &amp; Littlefield Publishers (July 1, 2004) 
ISBN: 0742541525

I would highly recommend this book. It is especially worthwhile for the â€œdebunkingâ€ of many of the arguments made by the single-payer advocates, with references. There is also a humble proposal of a healthcare system that might work and would be acceptable to most Americans.

An earlier version of the work can be found here for free:

http://www.debate-central.org/topics/2002/book2.pdf

I believe it was written about 2002, so it is a little outdated.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a good read regarding the realities of the single-payer systems worldwide:</p>
<p>Lives at Risk: Single-Payer National Health Insurance Around the World (Paperback)<br />
by John C. Goodman, Gerald L. Musgrave, Devon M. Herrick<br />
Publisher: Rowman &amp; Littlefield Publishers (July 1, 2004)<br />
ISBN: 0742541525</p>
<p>I would highly recommend this book. It is especially worthwhile for the â€œdebunkingâ€ of many of the arguments made by the single-payer advocates, with references. There is also a humble proposal of a healthcare system that might work and would be acceptable to most Americans.</p>
<p>An earlier version of the work can be found here for free:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.debate-central.org/topics/2002/book2.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.debate-central.org/topics/2002/book2.pdf</a></p>
<p>I believe it was written about 2002, so it is a little outdated.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

