My comments are a mess. Therefore let me publish this interesting comment and respond:
I am happy that you have the ability to read the mountains of respected journals needed to keep up to date in todays medicine. Unfortunately, I know too many physicians, perhaps in your own clinic, that know a dangerously little amount of medicine. As a pharmaceutical professional for 15 years, I have had to educate physicians who have thought there was one gigantic proton pump in the stomach to physicians that swore to me that Depot Provera was a once a day injection. Did you know that Advicor was made with aspirin or that Cox 2 were shown to be much more effective than the generic NSAIDs? Similar things to this have been told to me by physicians almost daily. Last week a doctor told me in confidence that Nexium and Prevacid were secretly working together because he saw an ad for Nexium on a Prevacid site. The funny thing is that each one of these incidents the doctors were talking about kicking the reps out.
So you keep on believing that you can keep up on all the latest information….That the mean old drug reps are out there, like satan as the serpent, to tempt you into moral sin. I will continue to pray that your patients go to someone with a little less hubris and a more open mind.
Rocko
I obviously touched a nerve with Rocko! I stand by my previous posts. Rocko is correct that many physicians unfortunately do not keep up with the latest advances in medicine. Thus, he and I identify the same problem.
Where we differ is in the solution? Drug reps are not the right answer. While they may provide some useful information, included with that information is an attempt to influence us to use their medication. Take PPIs for example. Talk to drug reps from each company. Each one will tell you why his or her drug is the best. They are masters of spin!
We (the medical schools and state medical societies) must do a better job of continuing education. Our current system does not work. These failures do not, however, justify drug detailing.
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{ 6 comments… read them below or add one }
Hmmm. Those darn dullard docs, they NEED us reps. We can show them purty graphs that magnify the 1.5% change for our twice as expensive me-too drug. Don’t get me started about how much better our E.D. drug is!
Question: did this drug rep write a letter to the medical board? No, he figured SALES outweighed his shock! Shock! So, more visits from the drug rep.
No Free Lunch! (www.nofreelunch.org). I mean it, we must squeeze drug reps out of our offices and ER’s. I’ll make an exception: dinner (and I’ll buy!) for the first drug rep that tells me their company has dumped ther erectile dysfunction research to concentrate on malaria vaccines.
I’ll never have to do that, more’s the pity.
This is the typical garbage that you see espoused by lots of different paramedical types. They can spout a bunch of detail about some esoteric health topic (in this case, low-level pharmacokinetic/pharmacodynamics about their specific products), and think that any doctors who don’t know (or care) about these details must be idiots in need of “education.” Bulls**t. Any competent layperson could spend an hour reading intensively about any given subject and learn enough trivia to “stump” me. That doesn’t mean they’re any smarter than me, or that I’m “not keeping up.” None of us can know it all, nor we should rely on the kind of biased information offered up by drug reps as our sole source of information.
While I feel for Rocko, he is totally wrong. I have not allowed Drug Reps in my E.R. for a long time. If Rocko and other drug reps are so altruistic, then they would be educating physicians on the best drugs to use in diseases and NOT THEIR PRODUCT. For example, Macrolides for community acquired pneumonia have been the primary drug of choice for quite some time now, but you get many drug reps pushing the next HOT quinolone….WHY? The whole point is, doctors should be using the best drug for the disease….if that were the case, then drug reps would not exist. They exist because they work, and influence physicians to use their product, even if it is not the best drug. This reminds me when Cipro first came out and everyone and their brother was being place on Cipro for community acquired pneumonia. It also reminds me of the American Heart Association pushing Amiodarone for Codes, when there is no study showing any improvement in outcome over other antiarrythmics (such as Lidocaine). Why the push for the expensive Amiodarone??? Take a look at an ACLS manual from a few years ago and see who sponsered the manual, and you will find your answer.
Can I ask the medics whether they see a role for the representative in the future? How do you envisage or would like to be’briefed, informed, detailed’ in the future…Sue. Scotland
Published on: http://www.pharmagossip.blogspot.com
You Have Now Been Sampled
While the pharmaceutical industry’s image and reputation has and appears to continue to suffer, added damage has expressed itself with costly patent expirations with certain corporations within this industry. As the president of the lobbing group for the industry that is called PhRMA would likely concur to a degree if asked, the image of this industry has experienced noticeable trauma over the past two decades in particular, and for solid reasons. We will start with the issue of samples.
Quite remarkable, and apparently legal, is the ability of prescribers to request branded pharmaceuticals from the makers of certain medications if a prescriber obtains a request form on the internet, for example. This, of course, bypasses representatives from the various pharmaceutical companies. For possibly a number of reasons, this avenue is rare for obtaining samples, as it is not offered by most pharmaceutical companies.
So even though the value of requesting samples of medications by prescribers is, apparently, an authentic method of obtaining samples, it appears that most pharmaceutical companies prefer to have their own representatives dispense samples of their promoted medications. This also allows for the release of inducements to certain prescribers that are of a much greater value than drug samples, which they believe affects the image of their products and its preference for them related to the inducement they may have accepted from you, which does not seem to be the situation always when it occurs.
These sales forces of pharmaceutical companies have been examined more now than in the past due to their size, for one reason. The size of the sales forces of large pharmaceutical corporations tripled at one point, starting in the mid 1990s. Also, estimated total income for an individual pharmaceutical representative may exceed 200,000 a year. Overall, the amount spent on these reps exceeds 20 billion dollars annually.
Sadly, and with a high degree of confidence, most big pharma representatives are viewed and evaluated by their employers as it relates to their offering of prescriber inducements they may provide to targeted prescribers, as their ability as a sales representative is difficult to determine, since most with big pharma have several representatives visiting the same doctors with identical blockbuster promoted products. In fact, one could conclude that an individual representative in such a work environment is ultimately exonerated from any individual responsibility in regards to their vocation, which is one etiology of the premise that they are judged by their employers according to how much of their employer’s monetary surplus they dispensed in a certain period of time. This will be further addressed later. Yet the inducements are never described by what they actually are, which are bribes. Who receives these bribes is largely determined by the volume of scripts they write, as well as their loyalty to a particular pharmaceutical company’s products. This data of the prescribing habits analyzed by certain pharmaceutical companies is certainly available, and this will be further addressed below.
However, and empirically, the drug sampling of doctors may be considered an ultimate if not primary type of an inducement of certain representatives. Some pharmaceutical representatives are falsely led to believe that their territory’s performance is due in large part to their powerful ability to influence others. Although such pharmaceutical representatives want to believe such a false premise, it is samples of medications that determine the prescribing habits of health care providers. This is obvious now more than ever.
Many years ago, drug reps used their persuasive, yet ethical, abilities to influence the prescribing habits of doctors in an honest and credible manner, as they focused on the benefits for the doctor’s patients with particular drugs that the detailer may promote to such a doctor. However presently, most health care providers now simply preventing drug reps to speak with them. This is especially true when they are in clinic treating and assessing patients. More and more medical establishments are completely banning drug reps from their locations, and I speculate that this is occurring for many reasons, which may include the following:
The doctors lose money. Doctors are normally busy, so their time is valuable. As a drug rep, you are an incredible waste of their time. Yet they will accept your samples still. The credibility you possibly have thought you had and were perceived as such by doctors as a drug rep is no longer viewed to exist to any noticeable degree by the prescriber.
Based on information and belief, the prescriber’s perception of you as a drug rep is you only provide information that is presumed by them to be overall inaccurate and void of authentic objectivity related to your promoted products as a pharmaceutical representative. This view is due to the frequent statistical gymnastics the employers of drug reps engage in way too often in relation to the clinical benefits of their medication illustrated by what is likely biased data.
Doctors by their very nature seek answers objectively. And doctors do in fact find out about drugs through other methods besides the representative of the drug’s maker, such as the internet and experience with certain medications, because of their awareness of the lack of authenticity of certain medications combined by the absence of credibility of the representatives of such medications. This is further illustrated by reps being selected by pharmaceutical companies due to their perceived appearance and personalities judged by certain employers. Further trait desired is their candidate’s potential and complete obedience in relation to their directives to them, which is expressed by the displayed affinity for money from a potential candidate. Qualities related to anything of a scientific, medical, or clinical nature is of no concern to most pharmaceutical companies, quite apparently.
This is why pharmaceutical representatives have no interest or concern regarding public health, perhaps. This premise is further validated by their employers’ minimal concern regarding the medical knowledge of their sales representatives, as this is replaced with teaching their representatives on how to issue various inducements to select prescribers., yet are just shy of calling these inducements what they actually are, which are bribes. Examples may be creating a check from your company to a certain supporting doctor and handing this check to thank a doctor for supporting your company’s products for doing little, if anything, for your employer to justify this check. Knowing this, it seems to validate their apathy regarding the medical knowledge of their sales representatives, while emphasizing obedience of them instead, which does not allow them to examine what they are told to do by some pharmaceutical companies, which may be viewed as inappropriate inducements to select prescribers.
In relation to non-monetary inducements given to certain prescribers, they may be of a certain value and are possibly without any clear medical benefit, such as TVs or DVDs, perhaps. And the autonomy that exists with some pharmaceutical companies allows such activities of legal or ethical consequences to be applauded by them to certain representatives of theirs as examples of innovation or creation by representatives who implement these activities. This appears to eliminate the need to examine the consequences potentially of some activities and tactics encouraged by certain pharmaceutical companies.
Another issue is what is referred to as data mining, which is a determining variable as it relates to who a pharmaceutical maker may choose to support financially, as determined by this data available to them, which authenticates the prescribing habits of others. When a pharmaceutical company issues such a reward, that takes many forms, the pharmaceutical maker, which is often very large and lucrative, alters their relationship with certain prescribers into a pathological symbiotic relationship of one that is focused on the continued monetary gain presumed to be of one that is great benefit to the maker of such medications. By doing this, the maker has not even allowed in a conceptual sense to be of an entity of any medical benefit of others ho to reward via numerous financial incentives for supporting the medical products produced and marketed by the gift giver, as this product maker often manifests itself into a creator of a quid pro quo relationship through what could be considered a pathological form of symbiosis that becomes a destructive host upon its creation by such companies. The receivers of such corruption are determined by those pharmaceutical companies that analyze this prescribing data, which is available to them starting with the selling of various identifying numbers of certain prescribers that are made available through the selling of these identifiers for the monetary gain of the providers of this data, which starts with the American Medical Association. Further disturbing is the fact that this behavior is not prevented by our lawmakers. In addition to pharmaceutical companies determining the supporters of their medications, the data also allows these companies to select certain prescribers that are of high volume, both of particular disease states and overall frequency. Because this variable allows a pharmaceutical company to conclude who could potentially affect their business and therefore dispense their financial stimulus methods accordingly. This allows certain pharmaceutical companies to create reciprocal relationships in addition to the anticipated continued prescribing habits of known supporters of certain drugs provided by and promoted by their makers.
Conversely, if a prescriber is determined by a pharmaceutical company to be harmful or of minimal financial benefit to a pharmaceutical company in relation to its promoted products, such a prescriber is often determined by such a company to be ignored by such a company, which includes any items of benefit to the health of others become forbidden and without access to such prescribers, which could include samples to such a prescriber as well.
While such unethical activities may appear to be ridiculous and without reason to some, this does not mean they do not occur, as the apparently unethical behaviors of certain pharmaceutical companies seem to be unbelievable by others on occasion. Furthermore, such tactics may cause an outbreak of corruption by other similar organizations, perhaps.
For example, possibly as a response to some tactics of branded pharmaceutical companies, some managed care providers are giving financial incentive to prescribers if they choose a generic medication that is typically less expensive than the branded variety. While legal, this activity is overall unknown to most citizens. However, such activity makes them no different in their approach to health care than certain pharmaceutical companies, as both affect the sterility of the judgment of some doctors who accept these inducements.
It seems that external regulation is necessary to prevent the drug companies from allowing the autonomy of drug reps and their own often secretive tactics that are utilized by some of the companies in the pharmaceutical industry. To many, it is rather obvious that internal controls of companies that perform such wrongdoing, are void of self-regulation, and choose to be this way with deliberate intent. If regulation happens, then it may be possible to resurrect the ethical element necessary as a participant in the health care system. The importance of public health should be the apex of their existence as a company that participates in this system..
Overall, pharmaceutical representatives are good, intelligent people who perhaps do not realize the results of actions that many consider to be unethical. Yet they do as they are told in order to maintain their employment, yet may compromise their integrity at the same time- as at times these methods implemented by members of the pharmaceutical industry with progressive frequency may result in a toxic culture and environment of certain companies that create with force certain representatives who perform activities that may be against their desire as a person.
I believe most reps really WANT to do well for their employers, yet are prohibited from doing so now because of how their employers are now viewed in their medical community, in relation to any contributions they may appear to make, which is not in the best interests of the patients, overall. Ethics once associated with this industry have atrophied over the past decades, and the result is the pharmaceutical industry is no longer viewed as a segmented type of a corporation, yet is unfortunately viewed as one with the objectives of greed and profit, and there are no exceptions of this perception that has been known to members of the pharmaceutical industry, yet have refused to shift their own point of view regarding this accurate premise the public has of them
Fear ensures loyalty.” — Author unknown
Dan Abshear (what has been written is based upon information and belief).
As a "pharma rep of 14 years, I have some points I want many to consider. My company pays me to discuss not only a drug, but a treatment option. This drug is used in an office setting and can greatly improve a patients QUALITY of life. This is a BIOLOGIC product in which there are no generics. I review technique, anatomy, and processes. I discuss reimbursement because insurance companies are very quick to deny physicians without my knowledge of payor policies.
When your family member suffers from a life altering event and they are searching for that treatment option, the option that requires training, educatiuon, instruction and skill, I hope you eventually find it. And I sure hope he/she knows what they are doing. Patients would be shocked to hear how little physicians know about very valuable treatment options. Desperate patients search for those physicians who know the options and will consider each one until something works. Those Physicians SEE reps like me.
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