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	<title>Comments on: Levels of thinking</title>
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	<description>Internal medicine, American health care, and especially medical education</description>
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		<title>By: kmh</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2042/comment-page-1#comment-4378</link>
		<dc:creator>kmh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2004 00:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2004/08/06/levels-of-thinking/#comment-4378</guid>
		<description>DB asks ....What kind of physician do you want?

answer depends on who asks the question?

 med mal lawyer:  doc who has to rush.

  defense lawyer: doc who is conscientious , but must be rushed

 national health insurance CEO:  doc&#039;s who  can make a healthy profit for the company

 Billing administrator: doc&#039;s who  depend on payments from third party payors

beurocrat from Wash DC: doc&#039;s who depend on government beauracracy to get paid.

Patients: Doc&#039;s who are not rushed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DB asks &#8230;.What kind of physician do you want?</p>
<p>answer depends on who asks the question?</p>
<p> med mal lawyer:  doc who has to rush.</p>
<p>  defense lawyer: doc who is conscientious , but must be rushed</p>
<p> national health insurance CEO:  doc&#8217;s who  can make a healthy profit for the company</p>
<p> Billing administrator: doc&#8217;s who  depend on payments from third party payors</p>
<p>beurocrat from Wash DC: doc&#8217;s who depend on government beauracracy to get paid.</p>
<p>Patients: Doc&#8217;s who are not rushed</p>
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		<title>By: m</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2042/comment-page-1#comment-4377</link>
		<dc:creator>m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2004 23:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2004/08/06/levels-of-thinking/#comment-4377</guid>
		<description>i agree liability risk will not be worse than traditional setting.

I do use a standard form and after explaining to patients why I reccommend a test such as c-scope ...if they refuse they sign the form.  I do tell patients this is to cover my but.  they sign readily.

I sense that cash paying patients will realize occasionally expensive tests will be suggessted and they are in the driver&#039;s seat if the physician informs @ risks/benefits.

Recently National Public radio did a segment  stating that the number of employers offering health insurance dropped a  large amount  in 2003.
I know of 4 cash only practices in our town of 100,000.  they are busy and I foresee more demand for these practices as then rsanks of uninsured grow (now @ 44 million folks).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i agree liability risk will not be worse than traditional setting.</p>
<p>I do use a standard form and after explaining to patients why I reccommend a test such as c-scope &#8230;if they refuse they sign the form.  I do tell patients this is to cover my but.  they sign readily.</p>
<p>I sense that cash paying patients will realize occasionally expensive tests will be suggessted and they are in the driver&#8217;s seat if the physician informs @ risks/benefits.</p>
<p>Recently National Public radio did a segment  stating that the number of employers offering health insurance dropped a  large amount  in 2003.<br />
I know of 4 cash only practices in our town of 100,000.  they are busy and I foresee more demand for these practices as then rsanks of uninsured grow (now @ 44 million folks).</p>
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		<title>By: arf</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2042/comment-page-1#comment-4376</link>
		<dc:creator>arf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2004 21:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2004/08/06/levels-of-thinking/#comment-4376</guid>
		<description>Maybe too early to see the total effect of consumer-directed healthcare, and all the ramifications.

HOWEVER, I&#039;ll stick my neck out, and speculate the &quot;failure to diagnose&quot; lawsuits will not be a major issue (as in: not any worse than it already is!)

The DOCTOR is not denying the test, the PATIENT is declining the test.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe too early to see the total effect of consumer-directed healthcare, and all the ramifications.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, I&#8217;ll stick my neck out, and speculate the &#8220;failure to diagnose&#8221; lawsuits will not be a major issue (as in: not any worse than it already is!)</p>
<p>The DOCTOR is not denying the test, the PATIENT is declining the test.</p>
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		<title>By: nd</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2042/comment-page-1#comment-4375</link>
		<dc:creator>nd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2004 20:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2004/08/06/levels-of-thinking/#comment-4375</guid>
		<description>thanks,  i find this very interesting and does make sense.  I do question , however,  in the age of &quot;you&#039;ll be hearing from my lawyer&quot; that cash paying patients will try to avoid expensive imaging ( MRI, CT scan&#039;s. etc..) in order to save money.  As you know this does lead the physician open to a failure to diagnose suit.

any thoughts on this.?

sorry to wander off the original rant..but it seems if we make changes on how we practice and do spend more time with patients (via cash environment) and avoid the aldactone mishpap&#039;s..we might later open ourselves to legal issues if we defer expensive work-ups (due to a patients ability to pay) we might regrets the cash only  office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks,  i find this very interesting and does make sense.  I do question , however,  in the age of &#8220;you&#8217;ll be hearing from my lawyer&#8221; that cash paying patients will try to avoid expensive imaging ( MRI, CT scan&#8217;s. etc..) in order to save money.  As you know this does lead the physician open to a failure to diagnose suit.</p>
<p>any thoughts on this.?</p>
<p>sorry to wander off the original rant..but it seems if we make changes on how we practice and do spend more time with patients (via cash environment) and avoid the aldactone mishpap&#8217;s..we might later open ourselves to legal issues if we defer expensive work-ups (due to a patients ability to pay) we might regrets the cash only  office.</p>
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		<title>By: arf</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2042/comment-page-1#comment-4374</link>
		<dc:creator>arf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2004/08/06/levels-of-thinking/#comment-4374</guid>
		<description>By the way, the doc who set up SimpleCare.....the motivation to go 100% cash-based was bankruptcy. He couldn&#039;t make a living in metro Seattle working with the HMO&#039;s and government entitlement programs. So he went cash-only. He makes a living, not rich, but does OK by his reckoning, and is a ton happier overall because he doesn&#039;t have to deal with the insurers. A whole bunch of the hassle associated with medical practice is associated with accepting payment from various insurers and government programs. Refuse their money, a whole bunch of rules fade away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, the doc who set up SimpleCare&#8230;..the motivation to go 100% cash-based was bankruptcy. He couldn&#8217;t make a living in metro Seattle working with the HMO&#8217;s and government entitlement programs. So he went cash-only. He makes a living, not rich, but does OK by his reckoning, and is a ton happier overall because he doesn&#8217;t have to deal with the insurers. A whole bunch of the hassle associated with medical practice is associated with accepting payment from various insurers and government programs. Refuse their money, a whole bunch of rules fade away.</p>
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		<title>By: arf</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2042/comment-page-1#comment-4373</link>
		<dc:creator>arf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2004/08/06/levels-of-thinking/#comment-4373</guid>
		<description>http://www.simplecare.com

Dr. Berry&#039;s Website, as I mentioned. He&#039;s been the center article in the Wall Street Journal, he&#039;s testified before Congress, incredible when you really think about it. 

His &quot;radical&quot; idea is to provide primary care on a cash basis. Costs are lower, so he can charge lower, more affordable fees. For a REALLY radical concept, he posts them, so you know what you are spending.

For that, he gets the attention of the United States Congress.

Anyway, he may have more insight or direct you to other places.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.simplecare.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.simplecare.com</a></p>
<p>Dr. Berry&#8217;s Website, as I mentioned. He&#8217;s been the center article in the Wall Street Journal, he&#8217;s testified before Congress, incredible when you really think about it. </p>
<p>His &#8220;radical&#8221; idea is to provide primary care on a cash basis. Costs are lower, so he can charge lower, more affordable fees. For a REALLY radical concept, he posts them, so you know what you are spending.</p>
<p>For that, he gets the attention of the United States Congress.</p>
<p>Anyway, he may have more insight or direct you to other places.</p>
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		<title>By: nd</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2042/comment-page-1#comment-4372</link>
		<dc:creator>nd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2004 15:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2004/08/06/levels-of-thinking/#comment-4372</guid>
		<description>does any body know of any other websites or information sources about cash based practices?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>does any body know of any other websites or information sources about cash based practices?</p>
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		<title>By: kmh</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2042/comment-page-1#comment-4371</link>
		<dc:creator>kmh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Aug 2004 11:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2004/08/06/levels-of-thinking/#comment-4371</guid>
		<description>another head shaker is seen in the huge and costly industry of medical billing.

As billing has become so complex there are thousands of consulting firms available at 30-50 dollars/hour to help doc&#039;s navigate  wasteful billing schemes demanded by insurance companies. 
 while we should be spending all our time in mastering medicine...we in fact spend a lot of our professional time  listening and implementing the commands of these billing consultants.

our local medical society (out of necessity )reccommends that we frequently spend several hours/year attending expensive workshop seminars regarding coding/billing issues.  (in order to keep our offices solvent)  

again...to admit that we need more time to spend on clinical issues and less time on billing issues threatens the medical billing indusstry as well

to think that some doc&#039;s don&#039;t need expensive billing software licenses, consultants, billers, auditors and expensive &quot;work flow&quot; consultants is too radical.

too think that doctors are  simplyfying their offices and going to cash only and as a result being allowed to spend more time wth patients is heresy to those who depend on our current wasteful sysytem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>another head shaker is seen in the huge and costly industry of medical billing.</p>
<p>As billing has become so complex there are thousands of consulting firms available at 30-50 dollars/hour to help doc&#8217;s navigate  wasteful billing schemes demanded by insurance companies.<br />
 while we should be spending all our time in mastering medicine&#8230;we in fact spend a lot of our professional time  listening and implementing the commands of these billing consultants.</p>
<p>our local medical society (out of necessity )reccommends that we frequently spend several hours/year attending expensive workshop seminars regarding coding/billing issues.  (in order to keep our offices solvent)  </p>
<p>again&#8230;to admit that we need more time to spend on clinical issues and less time on billing issues threatens the medical billing indusstry as well</p>
<p>to think that some doc&#8217;s don&#8217;t need expensive billing software licenses, consultants, billers, auditors and expensive &#8220;work flow&#8221; consultants is too radical.</p>
<p>too think that doctors are  simplyfying their offices and going to cash only and as a result being allowed to spend more time wth patients is heresy to those who depend on our current wasteful sysytem.</p>
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		<title>By: arf</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2042/comment-page-1#comment-4369</link>
		<dc:creator>arf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2004 06:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2004/08/06/levels-of-thinking/#comment-4369</guid>
		<description>If you would like to see Dr. Berry&#039;s Web site:

http://www.emergiclinic.com/

You will see a description of his practice, as well as a significant amount of writing and comment.  

Sometimes you gotta stand back and shake your head over how it became such a &quot;radical&quot; concept for a doctor to expect cash payment for services rendered, and to decline any connection with any insurance scheme or government entitlement program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you would like to see Dr. Berry&#8217;s Web site:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.emergiclinic.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.emergiclinic.com/</a></p>
<p>You will see a description of his practice, as well as a significant amount of writing and comment.  </p>
<p>Sometimes you gotta stand back and shake your head over how it became such a &#8220;radical&#8221; concept for a doctor to expect cash payment for services rendered, and to decline any connection with any insurance scheme or government entitlement program.</p>
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		<title>By: m</title>
		<link>http://www.medrants.com/archives/2042/comment-page-1#comment-4368</link>
		<dc:creator>m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2004 01:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://medrants.com/archives/2004/08/06/levels-of-thinking/#comment-4368</guid>
		<description>very comforting to see doc&#039;s
regaining control:

Joint Economic Committee of Congress
Testimony of 

Robert S. Berry, M.D.
President &amp; CEO of PATMOS EmergiClinic, Inc.
Greeneville, TN 

April 28, 2004 


Good morning. Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today. 

My name is Dr. Robert Berry. I graduated from the University of North Carolina Medical School in 1989 and did my residency in Primary Care Internal Medicine at the University of Alabama Hospitals in Birmingham. I became board certified in Internal Medicine in 1992, scoring at the 99th percentile on the exam’s “core component” – a measure of competency in General Internal Medicine. Up until I started this clinic over three years ago, I practiced Internal Medicine for six months and Emergency Medicine for the balance. I became boarded in Emergency Medicine in 2003. 

I represent a growing movement in cash only practices and the patients who use them. Yet our clinic is a little different in that we center medical services around the unique needs of the uninsured. They are the most cost effective healthcare consumers, and we all could learn something for them.

you can click
www.aapsonline.org and search the left column for the link entitled:
AAPS testifies before congress on cash based practices

also here is the ugly reality of a survey a few yeatrs ago....&quot; shows that the average cost to a physician office to process a Medicare claim is more than $24, amounting to about $60,000 in annual costs to the average office. A 2003 survey revealed that physicians and their staff spend almost one-fourth (22%) of all of their time devoted to Medicare paperwork and compliance. Some of the other findings may also explain the movement to cash-based practices&quot;

sounds like more than a few doc&#039;s are re-doing their practices to allow time with patients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very comforting to see doc&#8217;s<br />
regaining control:</p>
<p>Joint Economic Committee of Congress<br />
Testimony of </p>
<p>Robert S. Berry, M.D.<br />
President &#038; CEO of PATMOS EmergiClinic, Inc.<br />
Greeneville, TN </p>
<p>April 28, 2004 </p>
<p>Good morning. Thank you for inviting me to speak with you today. </p>
<p>My name is Dr. Robert Berry. I graduated from the University of North Carolina Medical School in 1989 and did my residency in Primary Care Internal Medicine at the University of Alabama Hospitals in Birmingham. I became board certified in Internal Medicine in 1992, scoring at the 99th percentile on the exam’s “core component” – a measure of competency in General Internal Medicine. Up until I started this clinic over three years ago, I practiced Internal Medicine for six months and Emergency Medicine for the balance. I became boarded in Emergency Medicine in 2003. </p>
<p>I represent a growing movement in cash only practices and the patients who use them. Yet our clinic is a little different in that we center medical services around the unique needs of the uninsured. They are the most cost effective healthcare consumers, and we all could learn something for them.</p>
<p>you can click<br />
<a href="http://www.aapsonline.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.aapsonline.org</a> and search the left column for the link entitled:<br />
AAPS testifies before congress on cash based practices</p>
<p>also here is the ugly reality of a survey a few yeatrs ago&#8230;.&#8221; shows that the average cost to a physician office to process a Medicare claim is more than $24, amounting to about $60,000 in annual costs to the average office. A 2003 survey revealed that physicians and their staff spend almost one-fourth (22%) of all of their time devoted to Medicare paperwork and compliance. Some of the other findings may also explain the movement to cash-based practices&#8221;</p>
<p>sounds like more than a few doc&#8217;s are re-doing their practices to allow time with patients.</p>
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