"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - HL Mencken
====
"I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." - Confucius
====
"The good physician treats the disease; the great physician treats the patient who has the disease" - Sir William Osler
====
" The best test of a person's character is how he or she treats those with less power." - Bob Sutton
====
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them - well, I have others." - Groucho Marx
====
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
====
"It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them" - Friedrich Nietzsche
====
"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple." - Charles Mingus
====
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - Albert Einstein
====
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesman and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
====
"This ain't no party, this ain't no disco, this ain't no fooling around." - Talking Heads, Life During Wartime
====
"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it." - Hillel, Talmud, Shabbath 31a
====
"You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing." - Thomas Sowell
====
"An idealist is one who, on noticing that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup." - HL Mencken
====
"If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail." - Abraham Maslow
====
"A great teacher is one who realizes that he himself is also a student and whose goal is not to dictate the answers, but to stimulate his students creativity enough so that they go out and find the answers themselves." - Herbie Hancock
====
"There are no facts, only interpretations." - Nietzsche
====
"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't." - Anatole France
====
"In character, in manner, in style, in all things, the supreme excellence is simplicity." - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
====
Workouts by month - Goal 200 from 11/1/09 through 10/31/10
http://ow.ly/1mYi7 - ABIM MOC program - two differing viewpoints - you can guess my voteMarch 16, 2010 5:06
RT @yejnes: My thoughts on the annual exam, etc., final letter ACP Internist, March 2010 http://bit.ly/9FNcXn wel-stated & importantMarch 15, 2010 12:47
A note to the professors, from the "real" world, on the use of ICDs in a fee for service community... http://ow.ly/1jaPy - great postMarch 13, 2010 2:19
RT @paulinechen: New "Doctor and Patient"; Learning to Keep Patients Safe in a Culture of Fear http://nyti.ms/bYA14V - blog post comingMarch 12, 2010 1:35
RT @tom_peters: @kevinmd Spoken like an MD. - true primary care is very complex - it is not simple care -March 11, 2010 12:43
RT @efalchuk: Seriously, what is Nancy Pelosi Talking About? http://bit.ly/9sHSc2 #healthreform #hcr #healthcare think Dazed and ConfusedMarch 10, 2010 7:53
Obama Says Health Overhaul Should Trump Politics - http://nyti.ms/bwKRyo - and he is correctMarch 8, 2010 7:28
@BertDecker multiples of 37 - trivial - any factor of 111 would factor into the others. The key here is that 37 * 3 = 111March 7, 2010 9:00
California’s medical malpractice law, cited as a model by President Bush, has reduced awards in malpractice trials by an average 30 percent, according to a study released Monday.
But because the landmark law capped attorney fees as well as jury awards, the net recovery by injured patients and their families fell only 15 percent, the study said. Payments to plaintiffs’ lawyers dropped 60 percent.
You can insert your own comments. I think this study makes our point exactly!
I would be curious to know what the effect of the California law has been on the costs of health care insurance and doctor’s malpractice insurance. In theory, both of these should have declined as awards and fees fell.
In theory, at least, I’m in favor of the free market. fee caps are a form of wage control. You wouldn’t like it if it happened to you, so why impose them on some one else? Why exactly is the free market unable to handle this problem?
A problem comparing state to state is the frequency of claims is different as well. With tort caps, the severity of any individual claim may be lower, though if the state has a higher frequency of claims, the premium cost may well still be higher.
Texas passed tort reform, and maybe some Texas insurers may have lowered premium, maybe some increased. Problem is, the tort reforms are too mew. The reforms will likely have to survive legal challenge before the insurers will have confidence they won’t just disappear in a year or two.
You could also compare with Indiana, which has also had tort reform for nearly as long as California; as I recall it was passed in the 1980’s.
>>Why exactly is the free market unable to handle this problem?
Because the free market is not applied uniformly to the medical marketplace. If it is even applied at all.
When physicians are free to decline to do high-risk work, when we are free to decline to take call, allow us to turn down the very sick or very high-risk patients……..
When OB/GYN’s are free to say they want to do ONLY gynecology and NOT obstetrics (many hospitals have policies forbidding this, or requiring ten, twenty years of OG/GYN practice before you can do just GYN)…….
When neurosurgeons are free to say they will do elective spine surgery and not head trauma……
Or when a physician takes on a high-risk patient, he is able to ask for a ten-thousand dollar fee for, say, a high-risk pregnancy….
A free market? Should we post service prices on a signboard outside the office just like restaurants must here in Washington? Should we chalk up the daily specials?
How would you like to bid for the services of the nursing staff the next time you are in the hospital? What would it be like to be able to choose from a menu the amount of time you would like to have from your doctor the next time you have an office visit?
Consider what your fate might be if you were the kind of patient for whom care providers might not want to compete. That is the difference between a merchant and a professional.
In a sense, we never escape the free market. Price controls where there are unfettered costs controls inevitably result in businesses going elsewhere where conditions are better, or closing where that is not possible.
There are really not enough states with insurance programs modeled after California’s MICRA, but we do know there has not been any hint of an insurance crisis there, with the malpractice rates affordable for everybody, and way below, for example, of those now being charged in Florida, which has some of the highest in the country.
Although the state legislature passed a cap of $500,000 last year, Florida physicians did not feel this was enough, with the rates remaining high, and getting higher for some specialties. Only six carriers remained out of more than 60 that were doing business a decade ago.
So the FMA has come up with a constitutional amendment, due to be placed this November, that would reduce contingency fees for trial lawyers to 30% of the first $250,000 award, then to 10% above that amount. This measure, if passed, would give more of the payouts to malpractice victims and less to the lawyers. Physicians also expect a chilling effect on lawyers filing frivolous suits, which they can use to shake down physicians for settlements. Defending these suits nowadays, no matter how meritless, can cost up to over $40,000 per case.
Public opinion polls so far have been favorable for physicians, so favorable that trial lawyers, in retaliation, have come up with three admendments of their own to counteract the FMA’s measure. None of these amendments is viewed positively by the public.
This battle in Florida is indeed something to watch. If we are successful, this may be something other states may want to do.
>>A free market? Should we post service prices on a signboard outside the office just like restaurants must here in Washington?
Actually, a little price transparency might be a good idea. Look at the Nuffield hospitals in the UK, go to their Web site, look at their “prix fixe” for various procedures, the (private) insurances they work with, and if you don’t have any insurance at all, they will tell you the cash price for the procedure in advance (posted on their Web site)……with referral to their finance department if you desire.
If someone had zero insurance and needed a certain elective procedure, it might be nice to be able to find out the cost in advance……maybe even shop around. Try doing that in the USA.
Nuffield is private, by the way, I am not advocating the National Health Service by any means.
Though I certainly agree, a true free market would allow physicians to turn away undesirable “customers” and undesirable “business”, or charge an appropriate price for that work.
The tort reforms in those states are brand-new. It takes several years for the rates to go down. The insurance companies have to be sure that the tort reforms are not going to evaporate in a year from a legal challenge.
If an insurance company announces a rate drop right after passage of a tort reform like a damage cap, they are not basing their decision on any actuarial data…….they don’t have any yet.
Illinois has passed tort reforms on several occasions, only to have them promptly thrown out by the courts. I think Texas did as well, but not as familiar with that state.
If the malpractice insurers had dropped rates in those states when the ink was still dry on the tort reforms, they’d have gone bankrupt.
By the way, why are you comparing California with Texas and Florida, with brand-new tort reforms?
Why not compare with Indiana, with long-established tort reform?
Nevada’s tort reforms will be new as well, I imagine. Actually, I did not know your state actually HAD passed tort reform. Hadn’t paid attention much since the trauma center problem a few years ago. Unfortunately, your doctors showed “good faith” to a group of people who wouldn’t know what good faith was if it bit them…….you know.
Certainly I understand the motivation and admire the professionalism of the trauma docs. Unfortunately, the lawyers and politicos count on our good nature when they screw us.
I have to say that it makes no sense that caps wouldn’t have an immediate effect on rates.
The rate is based on actuaries for future loss, and since future loss for P&S are now fixed, the rest of the actuarial should remain the same and the difference should be refunded.
That is, if insurance is a business with P & L based solely on their balance actuarials.
The actuaries can indeed calculate future loss as you say. They also have the common sense to know that the caps could vanish in a moment.
It happened in Illinois on multiple occasions. Tort reform gets passed, and promptly overturned in the courts. Multiple states have gone through that same process, though Illinois probably one of the worst.
So the actuaries are not going to make a strong recommendation to lower rates until they are SURE that the tort reforms will not vanish in a year.
The particular problem with malpractice insurance actuaries, versus other lines of insurance, is the time line and the uncertain nature of the loss.
A malpractice case could come up a decade or two after the event, depending on the state. Life insurance sees that as well, but with life, the loss is predictable. It’s the dollar value agreed to in the contract.
Malpractice, the loss could be one or two decades later, and the loss is fairly unpredictable because of the speculative nature of the noneconomic damages.
Caps will be in effect for some (possibly limited, but some) time in states that have passed them. This means for definite period of time after caps are passed costs for malpractice will theoretically lower in those states that have them. Those savings, if they are real, should be reflected in some lowering of rates.
The only thing that has changed after the law passes is that the total potential liability of the company is lower, and this, if the rhetoric about caps is correct, should result in some degree of lower future costs which should in turn cause a lowering, perhaps small, but a lowering of rates.
Unless there is no savings at all from caps, rates should lower to some degree when they are passed, or they are not the panacea they are claimed to be.
I can tell you that they have had virtually no effect so far here in Nevada.
Malpractice lawsuit DOES NOT EVEN HIT THE COURTROOM for five years or more.
You’re telling me you can’t understand that????
So based on that REALITY (I say “reality” because this has happened in multiple states, including my own)… how are you going to price the malpractice policy next year? Pretend you’re the actuary for the insurance company. The malpractice event in question. Say the economic damages are nine hundred thousand dollars ($900K). Non-economic damages could be capped at, say, $500K.
Or maybe the tort reforms could vanish in two years and the damages could be unlimited. Maybe a sililar case in that state got $10 million non-economic damages before tort reform passed.
So how do you predict the payour in five or ten years?
Will it be $900K + $500K = $1.4 million?
Or will the insurance company be expected to pay $900K + $10 million = $10,900,000?
You are required by state insurance law to be responsible with your premium pricing to anticipate your expected losses.
Malpractice Reformthe real health care issue.
Medical Rants has really been on a roll lately on the malpractice Issue. Read DB’s Medical Rants »this post and this post (especially the comments, particularly the last one) to get an understanding of why Dick Cheney blasted the Kerry/Edwards…
16 Responses to Why California should be our model
JB
July 12th, 2004 at 6:18 pm
I would be curious to know what the effect of the California law has been on the costs of health care insurance and doctor’s malpractice insurance. In theory, both of these should have declined as awards and fees fell.
Evan
July 12th, 2004 at 8:12 pm
California is also quite unique in having an insurance commissioner who reviews rate increases by insurance organizations.
So the correct comparison should be between Texas, which only has caps, and the rest of the country. I’d be curious to see what the numbers are there.
Bernie Simon
July 12th, 2004 at 9:42 pm
In theory, at least, I’m in favor of the free market. fee caps are a form of wage control. You wouldn’t like it if it happened to you, so why impose them on some one else? Why exactly is the free market unable to handle this problem?
arf
July 12th, 2004 at 9:42 pm
A problem comparing state to state is the frequency of claims is different as well. With tort caps, the severity of any individual claim may be lower, though if the state has a higher frequency of claims, the premium cost may well still be higher.
Texas passed tort reform, and maybe some Texas insurers may have lowered premium, maybe some increased. Problem is, the tort reforms are too mew. The reforms will likely have to survive legal challenge before the insurers will have confidence they won’t just disappear in a year or two.
You could also compare with Indiana, which has also had tort reform for nearly as long as California; as I recall it was passed in the 1980’s.
arf
July 12th, 2004 at 9:49 pm
>>Why exactly is the free market unable to handle this problem?
Because the free market is not applied uniformly to the medical marketplace. If it is even applied at all.
When physicians are free to decline to do high-risk work, when we are free to decline to take call, allow us to turn down the very sick or very high-risk patients……..
When OB/GYN’s are free to say they want to do ONLY gynecology and NOT obstetrics (many hospitals have policies forbidding this, or requiring ten, twenty years of OG/GYN practice before you can do just GYN)…….
When neurosurgeons are free to say they will do elective spine surgery and not head trauma……
Or when a physician takes on a high-risk patient, he is able to ask for a ten-thousand dollar fee for, say, a high-risk pregnancy….
Then maybe the free market can solve the problem.
CHenry
July 12th, 2004 at 11:34 pm
A free market? Should we post service prices on a signboard outside the office just like restaurants must here in Washington? Should we chalk up the daily specials?
How would you like to bid for the services of the nursing staff the next time you are in the hospital? What would it be like to be able to choose from a menu the amount of time you would like to have from your doctor the next time you have an office visit?
Consider what your fate might be if you were the kind of patient for whom care providers might not want to compete. That is the difference between a merchant and a professional.
In a sense, we never escape the free market. Price controls where there are unfettered costs controls inevitably result in businesses going elsewhere where conditions are better, or closing where that is not possible.
RGL
July 13th, 2004 at 7:46 am
There are really not enough states with insurance programs modeled after California’s MICRA, but we do know there has not been any hint of an insurance crisis there, with the malpractice rates affordable for everybody, and way below, for example, of those now being charged in Florida, which has some of the highest in the country.
Although the state legislature passed a cap of $500,000 last year, Florida physicians did not feel this was enough, with the rates remaining high, and getting higher for some specialties. Only six carriers remained out of more than 60 that were doing business a decade ago.
So the FMA has come up with a constitutional amendment, due to be placed this November, that would reduce contingency fees for trial lawyers to 30% of the first $250,000 award, then to 10% above that amount. This measure, if passed, would give more of the payouts to malpractice victims and less to the lawyers. Physicians also expect a chilling effect on lawyers filing frivolous suits, which they can use to shake down physicians for settlements. Defending these suits nowadays, no matter how meritless, can cost up to over $40,000 per case.
Public opinion polls so far have been favorable for physicians, so favorable that trial lawyers, in retaliation, have come up with three admendments of their own to counteract the FMA’s measure. None of these amendments is viewed positively by the public.
This battle in Florida is indeed something to watch. If we are successful, this may be something other states may want to do.
arf
July 13th, 2004 at 12:05 pm
>>A free market? Should we post service prices on a signboard outside the office just like restaurants must here in Washington?
Actually, a little price transparency might be a good idea. Look at the Nuffield hospitals in the UK, go to their Web site, look at their “prix fixe” for various procedures, the (private) insurances they work with, and if you don’t have any insurance at all, they will tell you the cash price for the procedure in advance (posted on their Web site)……with referral to their finance department if you desire.
If someone had zero insurance and needed a certain elective procedure, it might be nice to be able to find out the cost in advance……maybe even shop around. Try doing that in the USA.
Nuffield is private, by the way, I am not advocating the National Health Service by any means.
Though I certainly agree, a true free market would allow physicians to turn away undesirable “customers” and undesirable “business”, or charge an appropriate price for that work.
Evan
July 14th, 2004 at 3:27 am
So it sounds like Florida and Texas with damage caps aren’t much better off than we are here in Nevada with ours.
Our rates are still pretty high. I think California might be a bit sui generis here.
arf
July 14th, 2004 at 11:44 am
Absolutely not Evan.
The tort reforms in those states are brand-new. It takes several years for the rates to go down. The insurance companies have to be sure that the tort reforms are not going to evaporate in a year from a legal challenge.
If an insurance company announces a rate drop right after passage of a tort reform like a damage cap, they are not basing their decision on any actuarial data…….they don’t have any yet.
Illinois has passed tort reforms on several occasions, only to have them promptly thrown out by the courts. I think Texas did as well, but not as familiar with that state.
If the malpractice insurers had dropped rates in those states when the ink was still dry on the tort reforms, they’d have gone bankrupt.
By the way, why are you comparing California with Texas and Florida, with brand-new tort reforms?
Why not compare with Indiana, with long-established tort reform?
arf
July 14th, 2004 at 11:48 am
Nevada’s tort reforms will be new as well, I imagine. Actually, I did not know your state actually HAD passed tort reform. Hadn’t paid attention much since the trauma center problem a few years ago. Unfortunately, your doctors showed “good faith” to a group of people who wouldn’t know what good faith was if it bit them…….you know.
Certainly I understand the motivation and admire the professionalism of the trauma docs. Unfortunately, the lawyers and politicos count on our good nature when they screw us.
Evan
July 15th, 2004 at 3:05 am
I have to say that it makes no sense that caps wouldn’t have an immediate effect on rates.
The rate is based on actuaries for future loss, and since future loss for P&S are now fixed, the rest of the actuarial should remain the same and the difference should be refunded.
That is, if insurance is a business with P & L based solely on their balance actuarials.
arf
July 15th, 2004 at 12:17 pm
No, Even, it makes all the sense in the world.
The actuaries can indeed calculate future loss as you say. They also have the common sense to know that the caps could vanish in a moment.
It happened in Illinois on multiple occasions. Tort reform gets passed, and promptly overturned in the courts. Multiple states have gone through that same process, though Illinois probably one of the worst.
So the actuaries are not going to make a strong recommendation to lower rates until they are SURE that the tort reforms will not vanish in a year.
The particular problem with malpractice insurance actuaries, versus other lines of insurance, is the time line and the uncertain nature of the loss.
A malpractice case could come up a decade or two after the event, depending on the state. Life insurance sees that as well, but with life, the loss is predictable. It’s the dollar value agreed to in the contract.
Malpractice, the loss could be one or two decades later, and the loss is fairly unpredictable because of the speculative nature of the noneconomic damages.
Evan
July 16th, 2004 at 12:21 pm
Sorry but again, it just makes no sense.
Caps will be in effect for some (possibly limited, but some) time in states that have passed them. This means for definite period of time after caps are passed costs for malpractice will theoretically lower in those states that have them. Those savings, if they are real, should be reflected in some lowering of rates.
The only thing that has changed after the law passes is that the total potential liability of the company is lower, and this, if the rhetoric about caps is correct, should result in some degree of lower future costs which should in turn cause a lowering, perhaps small, but a lowering of rates.
Unless there is no savings at all from caps, rates should lower to some degree when they are passed, or they are not the panacea they are claimed to be.
I can tell you that they have had virtually no effect so far here in Nevada.
arf
July 16th, 2004 at 2:00 pm
Cap today.
Bad event today.
Lawsuit filed today.
Cap found unconstitutional in one or two years.
Malpractice lawsuit DOES NOT EVEN HIT THE COURTROOM for five years or more.
You’re telling me you can’t understand that????
So based on that REALITY (I say “reality” because this has happened in multiple states, including my own)… how are you going to price the malpractice policy next year? Pretend you’re the actuary for the insurance company. The malpractice event in question. Say the economic damages are nine hundred thousand dollars ($900K). Non-economic damages could be capped at, say, $500K.
Or maybe the tort reforms could vanish in two years and the damages could be unlimited. Maybe a sililar case in that state got $10 million non-economic damages before tort reform passed.
So how do you predict the payour in five or ten years?
Will it be $900K + $500K = $1.4 million?
Or will the insurance company be expected to pay $900K + $10 million = $10,900,000?
You are required by state insurance law to be responsible with your premium pricing to anticipate your expected losses.
How do you price the insurance?
Horologium
July 19th, 2004 at 8:10 pm
Malpractice Reformthe real health care issue.
Medical Rants has really been on a roll lately on the malpractice Issue. Read DB’s Medical Rants »this post and this post (especially the comments, particularly the last one) to get an understanding of why Dick Cheney blasted the Kerry/Edwards…